Disputing online gambling charges - is this Bodog doing all these?

If you had authorized the charges you'll probably be held liable for them. The reason they do the weird merchant coding is because internet gambling is not legal here in the states. The reason it's not legal is that even at best the random factor in any computer algorithm uses the modulus mathematical operation, which does not produce any true random results.

However it is just as easy to rig that same site so that the house always wins and since there is no effective way to regulate this coding (and hence extremely easy to defraud people) the US government decided to make it illegal.

If it is illegal and they have no recourse here other then to hire a shady 3rd party collection agency who will not be able to validate the debt and the ammount is too small to be taken to court then should I worry? I think if I just take the approporiate steps to dispute the charge then I should be fine right?

Well to be technical I don????????t see how they can take you to court over any charges as they would have to prove you made them and all they have are ???????phone/cable???????? charges and you could in all honesty tell a judge, ???????no your honor, I did not engage in any phone/cable service???????? from this company. Then in discovery you ask for validating documents that PROVE you got these phone/cable services. This is probably only if you take a CA to court for reporting this on your credit report???????I serious doubt they are going to put for the account: ???????in default for illegal gambling charges???????? :)

It all comes down to a moral obligation. Yes, it is an illegal service???????but did you know it was illegal when you used it? If not, then explain to the company that they are collecting for an illegal entity and you will pursue this aggressively and file suits against them if needed, after all, the company itself falsified records to cover what they were really charging for.

I dont think they are going to pursue court because it is such a small ammount, these chargebacks are becoming common in the internet gambling industry because they take a risk by hiding behind the 3rd party merchant coding of phone/cable because gambling is illegal.

Can they get onto your credit report without your SS# or drivers license?

Maybe not court, but what will you do if they report it on your credit reports..they can do that quite easily and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to in an attempt to force you to pay to protect your credit standing.

If they get onto my credit report I will demand validation of debt which I am assuming they will not be able to provide because the debt is illegal correct? If they still are on the report I will dispute it with the credit agencies armed with my credit statements that show the charges as unauthorized. I doubt the cllection will be able to provide the agency with proof, let me know if I am missing something..

I did try to make payment terms with the gambling site but they stopped responding to me..

If the gambling business accepts any financial instrument (credit card, check, e-cash, etc.)
related to that unlawful Internet gambling, it has committed a Federal felony. If persons
running the business come to the United States they can be arrested and prosecuted, and
any assets they might have in the country can be seized.

Johnny,

Did you ever have resolution to this issue? I'm in the exact same position, and they are threatening to hurt my credit. I was hoping you could give me an update on what happened so that I can act accordingly. Thanks.

Johnny, you are a fu^king loser. I was just searching Google and I came across this thread. You are a chickenshit little faggot that's trying to duck out of money you lost fair and square. I'd love to see someone kick your ass.

**********************************************
HOW TO CHARGEBACK ONLINE PKER ROOMS LIKE BODOG, SPORTSBOOK, FULL TILT, AND OTHER ONLINE CAS INOS AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK FROM CROOKS! :evil:
**********************************************
Having charged back thousands of dollars to date, I'm happy to say that you can get your money back from online cas inos in an easy, legal way. Online gambling is perhaps the most corrupt industry on the web. And clowns like the guy above this post who say you loose your money fair and square is either working for the online cas inos, or are just plain nieve. How do I know? Google "Online pker cheats." Online pker is one of the most corrupt things on the web. There's an entire underground out there meant to lure you in, and steal your money. There are groups of cheaters who band together on forums. There are programs that can predict card values (though I doubt they worK). I don't feel the slightest bit of remorse for taking my money back from the online pker rooms, because they allow it to all go on - as long as they get their rake.

**********************************************
SO! DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY! HOW TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK FROM THE ONLINE PKER ROOMS AND CAS INOS
**********************************************
My Disclaimer: Use the actions detailed in the story below at your own risk. Although, what I am about to divulge has always worked for me, you are responsible for your own actions, and should you choose to mimic any of my actions, any and all risk is your's to bear. I'm just telling you my story of how I've successfully gotten my money back from online cas inos and pker rooms.

**********************************************
Here are the main points I've found to be true:
1) Requesting your credit card company or bank to chargeback the online gambling charges is not fraud. You don't have to worry about going to jail or anything like that.
2) How is it not fraud? "I knew exactly what you were doing," you say? Well, that may be the case, but there's only one party here committing fraud!
3) How are the online cas inos and pker rooms defrauding you? If you take a gander at your bank statement or credit card statement, you can find the line item charge for the cas ino - just not under the cas ino's name. So let's say for instance you like bodog. Bohog likes to pretend their a telecommunications company called quest, instead of a gambling site. Sportsbook likes to pretend they are a jewelry store (I know hilarious). Well, that's where the online cas inos commit the fraud, because they are essentially laundering the money. Why do the online pker rooms and cas inos do this you ask?
4) I present to you, the Unlawful Internet Gaming Enforcement Act of 2006. UIGEA is a wonderful piece of legislation (google it if you'd like to learn more). UIGEA basically states that your bank, like Citi, Wachovia (or now Wells Fargo), Bank of America, Capital One, etc is not allowed to process transactions where the merchant's code is for gambling. You see, when you buy something online from say, amazon, the merchant's code will be for merchandise like electronics. Online cas inos are supposed to send a merchant code to the bank that says "This is a charge for online gambling". At that point, the banks silent alarm trips, and says, you guessed it - TRANSACTION DENIED! So, to get around this, online cas ino's lie, or use a shell organization to process your transaction. This shell or fake organization in turn launder's the money, and they pass it along to the actual cas ino. Which is "supposedly" what you gamble with. So, you can now see how the cas ino's are breaking the law! But I'm sure you're wondering where this comes into play when you want to get your money back, right?
5) Online pker rooms, like bodog and sportsbook, leave themselves wide open because of this lie they tell your bank. The cas inos KNOW there are going to be chargebacks by breaking US laws, so I'm sure they incorporate this cost into the rake you pay (not me - I don't gamble anymore!). One of their virtual tables can make what a doctor in the US makes 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Now, multiply that times 5000 tables, and you've got yourself a pretty substantial & lucrative reason to break US law. The online cas inos made one mistake, and it's a big one for anyone who knows the banking industry. Lucky for you, that's me!
6) The banks, believe it or not, are on your side. I know when I first called up citi, I was paranoid about committing fraud, lying, jail, etc. Here's one bit of advice. Be upfront and honest with them. You don't have to lie. I told citi exactly what the charges were for - online gambling. The banks hate being taken advantage of by the online cas inos as much as we do. Put the banks to work for you! Now here's the real kicker, and how you get your money back (I know, I've been beating around the bush, so here it is!)
7) The company on your credit card statement isn't anyone you've ever done business with before. Remember, it's a shell organization because it's the only way a cas ino can get your charges approved. It is the 100% truth that that is an unauthorized charge. You've never spoken to anyone or ordered anything from that company - the company you placed your order with was Bohog, Sportsbook, or any of the other online cheats - not the shell company. So, when you call into the bank, take the following steps:
A) Tell the customer service rep you would like to report some unauthorized charges on your account. The charges will likely have to post to your account, and some take a few days.
B) The CSR will transfer you to the fraud department - don't worry, they are there to help you!
C) The CSR in the fraud dept will ask you some questions to verify your account.
D) At that point, you say to the CSR, "I would like to report some transactions that appear suspect. I have never dealt with the company, before, nor have I received any merchandise from them. Can you tell me what the merchant code says I purchased just to make sure?"
E) The CSR will say it is for something like jewelry or phone card or some other bs that the cas ino is impersonating.
F) At that point, you say, "Well, I think I would remember buying $500 worth of jewelry from someone overseas. I can honestly say, 100% proof positive, I've never ordered anything from this merchant before, I don't recognize their name, nor have I received anything from them."
G) **Optional Step** - Usually, that is all you have to tell them. The first time I did it, I wanted to make sure what I was doing was 100% legal. So after telling the CSR that, I said, "I can assure you I've never dealt with that company before." I said, "It's funny though, I did go online and play some pker with bodog, but that charge never showed up? The charge amount for this thing is/almost is identical, but if it were for the online cas ino, the merchant code wouldn't say it was for Jewelry. Besides, a buddy of mine said it was illegal for banks to process online gambling transactions." As soon as the bank hears that it may be an online cas ino, they know exactly what to do. They do it every day! In fact, when I spoke with citi's awesome operators, they told me just that. I asked, "So do you guys get these types of calls alot?", and the CSR replied, "Oh, yes. We see them all the time. I'm sure we'll be able to get that money returned to your account, Mr. Smith." I was elated when I heard the good news.
H) At this point, the CSR will likely tell you they are going to mail you an affidavit to sign stating that these were unauthorized charges. I was told by the CSR at Citi that you can sign it and it is the 100% truth, and you don't have to worry about commiting perjury. It's the god's honest truth. You did your business with Bohog - NOT Quest. The only thing you even slightly recognize is possibly the charge amount, and that does nothing to help identify past business dealings with this company. Therefore, Quest's charges are unauthorized, and your bank will get your money back from the merchant account of the cas ino masquerading as a jewelry boutique.

Citi put the money back in my account immeidately. It became finalized after their investigation in about 4-6 weeks.

I make no apologies. I've given online cas inos a 6 figure pay day because of a gambling addiction I haven't been able to overcome. Taking back some of what I've lost online is what I consider well overdue comps, and a mere fraction of the money I will never see again.

A BIG NOTE: I do not condone taking your money back from the cas inos if you do not have a gambling addiction. An addict cannot control his/her actions. A non addict sees gambling for what it is - entertainment. Furthermore, if you are an addict, don't view this as a get out of free jail card. I don't use it all the time. Infact, I have only used it during those times when I went over board, and couldn't afford what I had lost - like when I couldn't make my house payment. I lost $400 last month, and didn't charge it back, because I was able to stop myself from going overboard, and letting that $400 become $1400. Let your conscious be your guide, as they say. Good Luck! :D :D :D

:roll: Oh boy, here we go again. :roll:

Quote:

You are amazing Mr. Smith. I am going to try you methods out this week. My bank called me because they suspected something was up and they asked me about several charges and I told them I never did business with those places. Now I have to go do the paperwork. WEre you able to do anything when the charge actually came up as Full Tilt or Ultimatebetcom???

Thanks so much

Quote:

I go into a lot more detail on my blog if you would like to read it. Feel free to check it out:

http://chargebackonlinepoker.blogspot.com/

-Mr. Smith

Online gambling sites try to present themselves as above board and safe for gambling. The facts are the opposite. Do a little research on the scam which was perpetrated on Ultimate Bet and Absolute poker gamblers. Are you so stupid to think that it doesn't go on everywhere? I'm a techno peasant but I have often thought how easy it would be to collude with others, or set up separate accounts using multiple computers, and do the old sandwich move on other players. For those who are computer savvy the scam potential is endless and I have no doubt that it is rampant. In regards to chargebacks, I would agree with those who have pointed out that because gambling sites are illegal they can do nothing more than blacklist you. I hope that the number of chargebacks escalates so that they go out of business. They prey on people who are sick.

What to expect? Jail.

I can't find one case of a person actually going to jail for online gambling or charging back charges, although there is always a first.

I run a referral site, so it hurts my business...I hate these vultures

Almost $7k chargedback to date. Regrets...I suppose. It's debatable the moral ramifications of such chargebacks. The casinos blatantly take advantage of compulsive gamblers. The gamblers take advantage of the casinos back. In the end, it looks like its a zero sum game, unless every US gambler started doing chargebacks. In which case, heaven forbid, the casinos would actually have to honor US law that says online gambling is illegal! I'm not so sure the people who crafted the UIGEA of 2006 didn't have this very thing in mind.

Eventually, people just get so sick of loosing that everyone is charging back the charges to the online casinos. The casinos have to honor the winnings of foreigners who won money of the US customers, but now, the casinos have to pay them out of their own pockets. An ingenious way to enforce US law at the international level.

For the online casinos, they are still making a profit off US players when they have no right to be because they show no regard for US Law. I say, screw em. Make your money where it's legal.

And as for people doing chargebacks going to jail, Mista Lin. That's not going to happen anytime soon. 10% of online gambling transactions are chargedback to the casino. The casinos build that into their cost structure (which is why they still chance the chargebacks and welcome US players). I wouldn't shead a tear if the online casinos simply made their money from places that were legal. Hell, make it legal in the US, and tax the shitite out of it....it solves your chargeback problems because it would make the UIGEA invalid :)

1. Deposit $7000 with a credit card
2. Cash out the whole $7000
3. Put the $7000 in your bank
4. Chargeback the $7000
5. Win the dispute
6. Get $7000 back from the credit card company
7. You now have $14000

you are part of the reason humanoids come on and rail against this forum.GET LOST!!!!!!!

Mr. Smith could you email me your email so we could talk in a good way. email deleted. My name is Alex, thanks.
Eventually, people just get so sick of loosing that everyone is charging back the charges to the online casinos. The casinos have to honor the winnings of foreigners who won money of the US customers, but now, the casinos have to pay them out of their own pockets. An ingenious way to enforce US law at the international level.
For the online casinos, they are still making a profit off US players when they have no right to be because they show no regard for US Law. I say, screw em. Make your money where it's legal.
And as for people doing chargebacks going to jail, Mista Lin. That's not going to happen anytime soon. 10% of online gambling transactions are chargedback to the casino. The casinos build that into their cost structure (which is why they still chance the chargebacks and welcome US players). I wouldn't shead a tear if the online casinos simply made their money from places that were legal. Hell, make it legal in the US, and tax the shitite out of it....it solves your chargeback problems because it would make the UIGEA invalid :)[/QUOTE]

no posting personal or solicitory info.

I think the casinos deserve the chargebacks. If they cannot present the charges legally, then they shouldn't present them at all. They are the "fraudsters."

I URGE you to do a chargeback with Bodog. As they're under investigation with the DOJ they WILL NOT pay players who have a payout owed to them (myself). I have been informed that they will not pay me out for $26,000 because I once used my friends account with my Credit Card. It's VERY simple...call your bank or CC company and they'll retrieve your funds with no questions asked...TRUST ME..Bodog knows that too !!!

Bodog is SHADY !!!

So a few months ago I lost a few thousand dollars at full tilt poker and poker stars. Then I found out that online gambling is illegal and even if I had won money with them I could not have legally deposited the check. Doesnt this make playing a lose-lose situation. and what Fulltilt and Poker stars is doing is stealing. Do I have grounds to chargeback this money knowing the facts now? Should I ask my bank about this situation?

I read about a new U.S. online gambling law that creates a legal loophole. Does this make the chargebacks more difficult or are things still pretty much the same? I'm specifically curious about California state law.

i charged about $5000 to my friends credit card on absolute poker..He reported the charges as fraudulent to his bank. They are giving him his money back and doing an investigation. Am I going to get in trouble for fraud? Will the credit card company find out that it was my account and come after me or will absolute poker have to pay the credit card company the money?

I wouldn't do it. They have delayed implementing the UIGEA and I tried to chargeback a large sum and my bank denied it.

My buddy charged back absolute poker and some other sited for like $8k. He got every penny back. They were doing business under a flower shop. It's pretty hilarious.

I have dealt with a similiar circumstance with Bodog. Now someone from their "collections department" is calling me at work harassing me. He then pulled emails of all the executives at the company I work for and copied all of them on an email he sent to me saying that I owed $2,000 and that I could go up for collections. Should I contact the police about this?

I am sorry, but after reading these posts, I think this thread should be deleted. It is a "how to" thread. How to avoid paying for something that you did and now you have found a loophole to get away with it. I am not saying that it is legal, But all of these people did play the game and knew how much they were betting everytime they placed a bet online with this company. Now they are trying to get out of it. So now they can feed their addictions without having to face the music. So what would these people have done if they had won some money and the company said, "Oh wait we are illegal in your country and we will not pay you your winnings." These people would be the same ones throwing a fit 3 ways to Sunday. Please close this thread and maybe even delete it.

while i can't delete the thread.i agree it should be closed.so it is.