had my meeting of creditors and I am LIVID!

Date: Wed, 06/24/2009 - 13:24
Submitted by ndmike25 on Wed, 06/24/2009 - 13:24
Posts: 88
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Had my 341 meeting or meeting with creditors today, I got there way early, like an hour to check out the place and get a feel before my appointment. It was weird. It was everyone who was filing for bankruptcy and had meetings today in one room with the trustee at the front and one table with a name card that said Creditors and one table with a name card that said Debtors. So, I sat through about 5 meetings before mine and not one creditor showed up! The meetings for each of them lasted about 5-10 minutes but everyone had lawyers but me.

So, its my turn and we're going through everything and I'm answering the questions just like I heard everyone else doing and things were going fine until we got towards the end and she tells me that I owe her $1600. And I said for what? And she said well on the day you filed bankruptcy, you had $1600 in your checking account. I said well I know that. I get paid monthly and on the first of every month, it looks like I have alot of money but that was before my bills all came out of it so now I have like $76 in there. So she asked how I wanted to pay it and I said well, of course, I didn't bring that kind of money with me so we went in this long discussion about how I was going to pay it and I told her well since I didn't know IWas going to have to pay

I would never have enough to pay her anyway. She told me that she is entitled to it, blah, blah, blah. Well, I told her we would have to dismiss the case then because I can’t afford to pay her. She said well, call my office and we’ll talk about this later because I have many more cases waiting. When I looked at the clock, I could not believe that MY meeting lasted almost 30 minutes because of this discussion on the money.

I’m so distraught now and don’t know what to do. I’ll have to do some more research and see how I can get that money exempted. If I would’ve waited to file until today, for example, I would have only had $76 in my account and this would not have been an issue.
Of course I have less money at the end of the month than I do at the beginning since I get paid the first of every month.


I have filed it all on my own, no attorney. As I already said I can't afford an attorney, I can't even afford the $299 filing fee right now. Seriously, if I paid her, my lights would be shut off and I would have no money for food the rest of the month. It's not that I'm totally clueless, I've done a lot of research before I attempted to file so I think I've done a great job but I think I got stuck in a catch 22. If I would've withdrawn all my money, she would've disputed that because she even said she would've so what am I to do. I wish I could ask for a different trustee. She saw what looked like something she could (and even legally could) latch onto and since there was nothing else for her to get from me, that was it. She even said if I asked to have the case voluntary dismissed, she could object to it but it wasn't worth it for $1600.

I swear, it seems like they are so against you and trying to find ways to keep you from filing and getting it discharged it just makes me sick-- the whole principle of it. We'll see how this plays out. Other than coming to this forum today, I haven't really felt like doing much research but I'll get back on the bus again tomorrow and see what I can dig up.


Submitted by ndmike25 on Wed, 06/24/2009 - 18:24

ndmike25

( Posts: 88 | Credits: )


I've learned through free consultations that when you file you should have little to nothing in the bank. Big ooops on your part. But don't feel so bad, I wasted $1500 on a lawyer that was such an idiot I just walked away, he wouldn't refund my money and it was right after I turned my papers in, so he obviously didn't even do anything yet to earn it.


Submitted by on Wed, 06/24/2009 - 21:48

( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


Ndmike,

File a complaint against the trustee. http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/ust_org/about_ustp.htm

Get an attorney. http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/prose.html#services After discharge, you will then have the income to pay them.

It is never advisable, even though possible, to appear pro se because of this very thing, the hungry sharks will attack you.

Guest,

You walked away on $1500??!!! :shock: They would have heard me yell from one end of the hall to the other! File a complaint against this attorney with not only the Dept of Justice, but also the state Bar.


There are, unfortunately, idiotic lawyers - just like there are idiotic psychologists and idiotic business managers. A degree isn't everything. They probably only graduated because they have a great rote memory.


Submitted by Chrys Henderson on Thu, 06/25/2009 - 01:06

Chrys Henderson

( Posts: 2538 | Credits: )


My understanding is the BK trustee gets a piece of the action, so she saw that cash and thought it was easy pickings - easier than selling some tangible asset like a car, etc.

OP, why are you filing BK anyway? Are creditors suing you? BK should be the absolute last-resort option, IMO, to be done onlyif you are going to lose something to a creditor anyway.


Submitted by on Thu, 06/25/2009 - 13:52

( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


See the USCourts BK site on The Role of the Case Trustee: "The primary role of a chapter 7 trustee in an asset case is to liquidate the debtor's nonexempt assets in a manner that maximizes the return to the debtor's unsecured creditors. The trustee accomplishes this by selling the debtor's property if it is free and clear of liens (as long as the property is not exempt) or if it is worth more than any security interest or lien attached to the property and any exemption that the debtor holds in the property."

This person will get a commission on anything they can seize and liquidate but I believe she may be stepping out of bounds on this issue. Which is why a complaint needs to be filed, and the trustee needs to be investigated.

Also why it is always best to get an attorney for BK.

We do not know the specifics of this case so cannot do anything but conjecture, BK is rather complex and the trustee *could* be correct, or partially even, but we cannot know or guess without reviewing all the relevant facts.

Again, it's why you *need* an attorney for BK. Filing on your own, while possible, is strongly unadvised. I am not intending to insult you here, but it is said that the person who represents him/herself in court has a fool for a client... You are dealing with people who do this all day long, day after day, week after week, year after year. They can do it in their sleep. You, however, are relatively green (even if you hang around courtrooms or worked as an intern, etc.). The advantage is clear. There is no reason not to have an attorney in the United States. There is legal aid, plus there are attorneys who will agree to get paid after discharge, when you will have the funds to pay them.

See "http://www.wellsofjustice.com/trustee.htm" for a clearer description (but from a decidedly negative standpoint - they call the Trustees "bottomfeeders") of the BK 7 trustee: "http://www.wellsofjustice.com/trustee.htm"

We hope that the government will repeal the insultingly named BK "reforms" passed by Bush in exchange for back door dealings with lobbyists (mainly from the bloated medical industry - the #1 reason people file BK) because it is grossly unfair and set debtor protections back 100 years and made it easier for ridiculously wealthy people to plunder and pillage the hardworking American out of every little thing we struggle so hard for.

BK 7 is basically for the insolvent debtor. If you aren't fully insolvent when you file, you will be by the time of discharge. It is intended to clear the slate so you can start over.


Submitted by Chrys Henderson on Fri, 06/26/2009 - 00:38

Chrys Henderson

( Posts: 2538 | Credits: )


What if the account is a joint account? I listed half the balance in my filings. My wife didn't file just me so half of the money in the account is hers. :?:


Submitted by on Fri, 06/26/2009 - 07:02

( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


I had originally filed because I had been sued by a creditor and they got a default judgment for $4000.00 so they were starting garnishment proceedings, already put a freeze on my checking account, etc....

I definitely understand why I needed to file Chapter 7. That isn't the issue. After my house payment, car payment and utility payments, I have $400 left for the month. That doesn't include gas for the car, groceries, etc... By the end of the month, I am scraping to get by. I cannot afford an attorney. If I could, I know that I would be better off with one. It shouldn't take an attorney to file bankruptcy anyway. The trustee should treat you the same regardless of whether you have an attorney or not. I've contacted several legal aid offices, most won't even return my calls. I have had zero help from anyone outside of the forums here. I have done this all on my own and yet the court is still trying to suck money from me, it's so ridiculous.

My trustee clearly showed she is a bottom feeder. She is no better than a lousy debt collector that I've been all too familiar with. Even the court said oh you make $36000 a year, you can afford the costs. They don't take into consideration your expenses AT ALL!! This is all because I filed at the beginning of the month, rather than, the end of the month. Makes no sense whatsoever.


Submitted by ndmike25 on Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:45

ndmike25

( Posts: 88 | Credits: )


This doesn't make sense to me, if they thought you made too much money they would convert your 7 to a 13. It looks like you really need to get through this, after the BK you will be debt free but right now it's just going to get worse and financially tighter for you.

And, "should" is a big word. A lot of things *should* happen automatically, like fairness and justice. But in the real world, you sometimes have to fight for it yourself and not give up.

But the nature of Chapter 7 (after 2005) is to liquidate anything of a value over your state Exemptions, apply that to the debt, and then discharge the remainder. It is the trustees job description to extract as much funds from you as possible.

And you have a complex case, even more complex than ordinary BK. There are Legal forums dedicated to BK issues online, try a Google search of "pro se chapter 7 help" or something like that....

"Most Legal Services organizations do not have the staff or manpower to handle Chapter 7 cases. ... The Code that is designed to give consumer debtors a fresh start often does not function without trained bankruptcy counsel."
"http://www.nmrs.com/news/nelson-mullins-articles-speeches-detail.cfm?id=35"

Of course, that is coming from a BK attorney, but in this case it is true. The new BK laws are hopelessly complex.

Also, you can search for web sites with detailed instructions for your state & county for filing Pro Se, for example, this site for the District of Western Wisconsin of the Bankruptcy Courts on Filing Pro Se.

I do understand, however, that you may not technically qualify for Legal Aid so you will have to shop around for an attorney the hard way: by making an appointment for a free consultation one by one until you find one that is willing to wait until after discharge to get paid. But the reason I am saying that is that you have very detailed questions that can't really even be speculated on without a thorough knowledge of your case.

Here is a thread on this forum about filing Pro Se and even she says: "BUT - I would only recommend filing on your own if you have no assets. Assets complicate things."

Hopefully, you can get through this complicated mess relatively unscathed, and I wish you the best.


Submitted by Chrys Henderson on Wed, 07/08/2009 - 21:13

Chrys Henderson

( Posts: 2538 | Credits: )