FDCPA...do they have to follow it? Need advice...gonna sue

[quote=PDL Associate]Are you sure that you are by pursued by 3rd party collections here? Many PayDay Loans are first party collectors in which case the fdcpa does not apply.[/quote]

People can not say something and later say I did not say it-Roxette

however, if 1st party creditors are not following payday lending licensing laws in your state (if it has them) them the loans themselves may be illegal so it may still be worth fighting, especially if those state laws have provisions on how collections can be done.

Original Creditors are not bound by the fdcpa. The FDCPA applies only tO "debt collectors", "Collection Attorneys" and "Debt Purchasers" (i.e. a collection agency that purchases bad debt from a compnay is not considered the "owner of the debt, they are stillunder federal laws, considered to be a collector), all are defined in the FDCPA.

This is made very clear in a FTC Staff Opinion to Arbuckle of Midland Credit which can be found on the FTC's FDCPA home page at https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules/rulemaking-regulatory-reform-proceedings/fair-credit-reporting-act


In short if you are dealing with the actual lenders, they ARE NOT legally bound by the FDCPA, but if they has assigned or sold the debt to a Collection agency or attorney, they ARE bound by the FDCPA.

JJ-

I am not trying to offend or play devil's advocate here but I would like to express my thoughts. Whether the lender is licensed or not, the person who borrowed the money needs to pay back what they borrowed. No one seems to care whether or not the lender is licensed when they accept the loan, it only seems to come into question when they are unable to repay the funds. That said, I do understand and agree that the lender should waive exhorbitant fees when attempting to collect on a debt, so I am not trying to start any kind of argument or heated discussion in this forum. I think that for the most part, this forum encourages people to pay their debts in a responsible fashion.

[quote=PDL Associate]JJ_

Sorry, that was my post. I wasn't trying to be anonymous, I just forgot to login.[/quote]


People can not say something and later say I did not say it-Roxette

PDL Associate,

I think we come to the forum for help and to learn. I knew nothing of licensing when I took out these loans and I am trying to pay these debts off with the help of debt consolidation. I accept full responsility for the mess that I am in. It has gotten much better over the past few months due to research and hard work. Okay, now here is where I get a little hesitant with payday lenders. So many due to follow any laws, state or federa. They think they can threaten and harass people with all kinds of crazy notions. It is absolutely ridiculous what some of us have been through. I have not run away from my debt and we all encourage each other. This does not give the lender the right to harass and threaten the consumer. This is where I think people need to learn their rights, state laws, etc. I have had legal grounds to sue some of these lenders because of said harassment, etc. Some I am fighting the ridiculous fees and such. I don't mind paying what I actually owe but not some trumped finance and roll over fees that add up to hundreds of dollars after I've been in debt consolidation for a few months. That is just highway robbery. Due to the harassment and such, I am willing to see some of these companies shut down. I will help out anyway that I can. I think these companies, especially online ones, need to be regulated better or shut down for their illegal practices. This is just my opinion and passion.

beatle,

I can tell you a few things about mypaydayloan.com. I dealt with them. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.

[quote=PDL Associate]Mishele:

I have offended you...I did not mean to. Yes, the consumer has laws to protect them. Yes, the companies that are abusive need to face consequences. I totally agree. I feel that some people come to this site to get ideas on how to stall or how to get out of paying the debt. I read these posts everyday. I am associated with the industry but I too have debt and have had experience with collection agencies (not many, but a few during my college days!!). I know that it gets frustrating and I commend those of you who are trying to better their credit. I felt so much relief when I saw my score begin to go up! I come to these forums to try to offer good advice when I know I can, not to harrass those of you who come here for support.[/quote]


People can not say something and later say I did not say it-Roxette

No, you didn't offend me. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. Do you work for a payday loan company? You said that you were associated with the industry. Honestly, I am paying my debts or doing the best that I can now. The majority of the people here want to and are willing to pay their debts to to the best of their ability as well. The first payday lender who called me after I entered into debt consolidation, called me a thief, a liar, and told me I had no rights. He said I basically ripped him off. I said I know I have rights and I'm working with debt consolidation. I'm not running away from the debt but I need help. Sometimes I feel like a lot of us that are trying to do the right thing, continously keep getting harassed. I know think that is fair so I try to hold those lenders accountable for their actions. I'm not going to roll over and play dead. They want me to be held accountable for my actions so I think fair is fair. After this guy told me I had no rights, I went on the war path. It's just how I am and I've been on the war path ever since. Yet, I continue to make my payments to T & C every week. I think that particular company regrets the day they told me the had no rights. They lied to me, threatened me, blah blah blah. Harassing me is not going to make me pay my debts faster. It only irritates me and makes me do more research. I know that this is not all payday lenders, some have been very nice with me. Some have settled for just the principle amounts. But I will continue on with my research to make sure these companies are following the laws.

It is not my intention to take the money and run. You would think that I would know better, seeing what my profession is.

I lost my job when I became sick and hospitalized. I make less than half of what I did now that I am on unemployment. It is a little frustrating to be unable, not unwilling, to take care of things that you are responsible for.

I have 6 payday loans. Four of the companies have been polite and understanding while trying to do their jobs. In the industry, the common phrase is, "You are not a customer, you are a debtor." That's good and fine, and those people are just trying to earn a living, but harrassing people, and sending letters that say "WHEN?" and nothing else is just ridiculous...don't you think?

Wow. I have been in the industry for a long time, and I didn't realize that first party lenders are not bound by fdcpa. I have worked for first party lenders. Maybe it's because reputable companies CHOOSE to abide by the FDCPA.

Too bad you are not a resident of Texas. We have the Texas Debt Collections Act (similar to the fdcpa), but indeed it does apply to original creditors as well as third party collectors.

I am a resident of Texas!!!!!
Awesome. You have just made my day. God bless you. I am going to call an attorney in the morning!

beatlemyn02,

This is the first I have heard of out of country debt collectors, but if they are doing business in Utah, and that is where the correspondence comes from, they must obey American law.

This is rather like some American lawyers I have known hwo think that American law is applicable in Russia or Croatia etc. Utterly rediculous.

If they insist on operating under Costa Rican law, then ask them, what can they do about it? You are an American citizen and a resident of Texas.

Be warned, that I have no knoledge of cash advance laws -- only laws such as credit cards, unsecured debt, etc. But I am quite confident that the law of some foriegn land has no jurisdiction in Texas.

I am in the process of checking this out. I will let everyone know what I find out.

Is a first party debt collector also known as an in house collector for the original creditor? Also, mypadayloan does work within the US. If you check their website, it states they are bound by the laws of Costa Rick as well as your state's laws. When I talked to Janelle about this, we went back and forth on it. I filed a complaint against them with my state's AG's office because Jake told me I had no rights in this situation. They eventually settled my debt with them. Don't be afraid of these people. Hold your ground and you will be fine. :P

When a collector tells you that they are "in house" (Jake used that one on me too) they are just trying to gain some ground to scare you, because later in the conversation, they will threaten to farm out the account to a third party agency, and fees will be added, blah blah blah. Collectors will try to use terms that seem intimidating.
I have recorded all of the detailed messages that have been left on my machine to a microcassette. The messages that are being left are extremely illegal.

This is a very large trend recently. Call up the collector and you'll get the "switchboard" then they'll forward your call to the "account manager" who is handling your account. In my experience, each time, this "account manager" was as thick as a brick, and must not have been able to get a job at the local fast food joint.

I just want to add that I am in no way trying to get out of my debt with GECC or now SIMMs,I just feel that adding on another 1200 dollars in fees is a little over the top.My original loan was for $500,and I renewed it for over a year,my fees or interest were $2800 for this loan,and I have paid all of this,but since the loan kept renewing and I defaulted in November,they kept adding interest even though the consolidation company was sending them payments.My balance sent to SImms was $1900.00.So my total for a 500 loan will be almost $5000.00.Ive paid them 2800 dollars to date and they want 1900.00 more.Do you think this is right,give me a break,I want to pay them the $500 but,I just want them to drop the fees.Enough is Enough.

Cat

I believe that you only owe these fees, etc only if a judgment had been rendered against you stating such. Every state has laws about these "payday" lenders however. By what I read of your post, this would seem extortion.

No judgement has been rendered,they just kept adding fees when I when into consolidation,since they were not getting the normal payment from my checking account.I was going to pay it all,and have been making payments thru consolidation.But when they sent it to SImms CA,they said my balance was now $1900,since they continued to add fees.I think that I have paid them enough.They say that they dont renew loans,that they just issue a new loan so the nearly $3000 dollars I paid them last year was for 24 different loans.I just seems to me that a judge would think that $5000 was enough also.

Twokid,

We know that you aren't trying to get out the debt. I understand the outrageous fees because they have done it to me, even after sending payments on a regular basis. My loan was $387 with the finance charge and now it's almost $1,000. This is predatory lending at it's best. After the letter that I received from Simm's over the weekend, I don't believe either company really care about the individual trying to get out of the debt. How are you supposed to when they keep adding a few hundred dollars each month? File a complaint against GECC with your state's AG's office. Maybe they will drop some of the fees that way. :x

Twokid,

Nobody here will judge you about your debt. I am a collector by trade and I am so far in the hole, it's not even funny. I am making it my personal crusade to help people, because I KNOW how the industry works. it is one thing to pay back the money that you owe. It is one thing that pay back interest per the contract that you signed. However, this case sounds very suspicious to me. I would want to see a break-down of how they are applying your payments, and I would want to see a copy of the original contract where it states that they can do such a thing. I am suspicious.
Please know also that state attorney generals are getting bombarded with consumers who are getting ripped off, and lawmakers are taking notice of it. I expect legislation to be brought up at any time that is going to really slam these payday lenders. They really work in the "grey" area of the law, and if one is not familiar with the system, these predators get away with it.
i would ask for full and complete documentaion. You have a right to know where your money is going.

Twokid,

Call Simm's Associates directly and they will be able to work with you. I did yesterday and they were really nice to deal with. I think there was a lot of confusion on both ends so we were getting nowhere. Once I picked up the phone, I was able to make arrangments with Simm's directly to pay my outstandling loan off for GECC. And it was actually the original amount of the loan so I was pretty happy about that. I will be able to pay it in three monthly installments so this one will be taken care of.

The federal law states that you can be called in reference to a bad debt any where , unless you know it is prohibited and not allowed. You don't know if a person's work would be prohibited by the employer without first calling. Yet I see forums that say you can't call debtor's work places.

Also I read where debt collector's can use aliases (names). Then I read where they can't use them.

Who is right. Is everyone's interpertation of the laws correct.

I am not scared of them. As a matter of fact, all of the calls stopped. I am assuming that they are in the process of farming out the debt. No better time than the present to file a dispute...while it's in limbo!

Garry,

I am learning to check on the federal trade commission website as far as collection agencies are concerned. I believe they can call you at work but only to talk to you. If you tell them not to call you at work, then they are not allowed. They cannot disclose the information to a third party either.

They can call you at work as long as you let them, and they cannot disclose even the name of their business unless they are askedf or it, and even then they cannot say "collections." The fdcpa is specific that a creditor must stop calling if he/she is told that the debtor could get in trouble for it.

Can a debt collector use an alias name? I read yes and then no.

Yes and no. I used aliases. I had three of them. I think some state don't allow the use of aliases, but it is really hard to prove, so there is really no way of knowing if they are breaking the law on that unless you sued them and they had to make their records available to the court.

Posted: Tue apr 04, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: verizon wireless california

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I have a 440.00 collection account with Verizon Wireless. The collection say I had to pay the total amount in full or it is going to arbritation on the 17th of this month. They indicated the charges will grow to $1000.00 and my wages will be garnished. I tried to set-up a payment plan for a $100.00 per month. They stated I refused to pay and hung up on me. WHat recourse to I have at this point. I want to pay them but am unable until my next payday on April 22nd. Thank you
_________________
Register today to encash debtcc points.

To garnish your wage they have to win judgment against you. These are collection threats. Have you received any written document from them? If no, request for validation. Send your letter through CMRRR. Once they receive your letter, they cannot start collection activity before sending the validation.

Check your state's laws as well. They are full of it. I talked to some one recently who delt with DCS out of California (Diversified Collection Services). This was about a student loan, The person said, "I'm going to send a letter of validation". They said, " It doesn't matter. It is up for review to be handed over to the Dept of Justice in two days". Complete rubbish. That was six months ago.

BTW What is the name of his collection agency?

PDL Associate, back up the truck there. If first party collectors don't have to obey the fdcpa, then how exactly are the collection practices regulated? When I was taught about the FDCPA, I learned that it was put in place to regulate collections practices and to maintain the reputation of the original creditor. Perhaps some laws such as identification and mini miranda do not apply since there is no conduit between yourself and your customer, but the rest does apply. Am I right?

[quote=PDL Associate]You are absolutely correct, Ari. I realize that I was completely non specific with what I said. I was simply referring to validation letters and cease and desist letters not. I also think that in most cases, the original creditor wants to maintain their reputation so they have a more customer service type attitude toward delinquent accounts, right?
[/quote]
People can not say something and later say I did not say it-Roxette

It depends on which state you live in. In Texas, the Texas Debt Collection Act (similar to the fdcpa) indeed does apply to original creditors or "first party" collectors.

As to your question, a few years ago, Capitol One was using RMA (an unsavoury collection agency bent on breaking the law) as a sort of "in house" collector. You could call up Risk Managment Alternatives and ask to speak to managment, and you'd be redirected to Capitol One. They'd then say that the FDCPA doesn't apply to them.

This is just an example of trying to get around the law.

PDL Associate, I do concur. Even though some of these dudes have accounts in arrears, they're still valued customers, and once they debt is clear, the business relationship will resume.
As far as the validation letters go, I agree with you. Between customer and business, they both know exactly what the deal is so there would be no need to validate, and I don't see where a cease comm would come into play since first party does not play hardball the way third party does.

You are a FORMER debt collector, the reason being, you couldn't make the cut. You are NOT an attorney, therefore, do not give legal advice. I suggest that you consult with a legal counsel insofar as your thread contains many inaccuracies of both state and federal laws. It is also quite laughable that a FORMER member of the collection industry would send a copied validation letter.

THIS COMMUNICATION IS FROM A REAL DEBT COLLECTOR

Get bent, settle up. Just get bent. I am a former collector because I MOVED TO A DIFFERENT STATE. I was also told by my manager that if I ever moved back up to the area, their doors would always be open to me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Also, beatlemyn02 used to collect JUNK DEBT which is a completely undignified line of work. Neither one of us are giving legal advice, just advice on how not to get run down by collectors like you who do not follow the fdcpa and are only in the business of TAKING rather than RESOLVING while they pay down their debt. Keep your opinions to yourself. They don't apply here.

Ari u go girl :lol: Settleup migh be a real debt collector,but not a very professional one. These people usually hang themselves when they start talking. I have dealt with REAL debt collectors before that were not only helpfull,but very adult and professional.

That's exactly what I was when I collected student loans, and that's exactly what I still was when I joined this forum.

As far as settle up goes, let the baby have his bottle. People like him/her are the kind of people who bitch for sport, not because they have any real issue.

Settle up

That was hillarious. She can give all the legal advise she wants as long as she isn't asking for money to do so. And it seems that she knows a great deal more than you legally.

To everyone else:
settle up is one of those "yes men (or women)" employees who think they're going to get somewhere in the corporate world without benefit of an education. When their bosses are indicted, when the law comes down, and they're held as well, settle up is the one of the employees who say "but we didn't know it was illegal".

Quote:

Pay no mind Clay, this guys' just a clown. What settle up says amounts to nothing. He or she is impossible outnumbered, and wrong. Double wammy of stupidity. Bad form.

"She can give all the legal advise she wants ..."

mwtx, you mentioned in your above write-up something about not having an education when you mis-spelled the word ADVICE.(please see your above quote"

Ari, you wrote that your location is Pensacola, FL. I am scratching my head as to where your tan is in your picture. You appear to be like something Kid Rock would have dated before he made money.

Clay, you just flat-out bore me..... I will take it easy on you Clay. It must have been rough enough growing up with such a macho name.

Settle up, do you have any actual point that you are trying to make or is your social life so dull that you get off just baiting and/or insulting people... so besides your being a debt collector, what is your CV like, huh.... come on tell us why you are so much better than the rest of us....

Ok....I don't see where having a tan has anything to do with living in Florida..Have you ever heard of SKIN CANCER? Not everyone wants to comprimise their health for a tan.

Settle, You need a life. You BORE US!

good one jessi

These hecklers are good entertainment. It's not often that I get to engage in immature banter..lol

true enough, same here, well outside of my 2 boys (17 and 13)