Just a reminder again..Mods too need to follow our Terms of Service
Date: Wed, 08/22/2012 - 02:40
Just a reminder again..Mods too need to follow our Terms of Service
We are getting frequent complaints about moderators' attitude here and post deletion. Just take a look at one such mails that we keep on receiving.
[QUOTE]Hi Mike & Jason,
I am a new member to the site as of yesterday and as with a lot forums
(regardless of the site or topic) there seems to be at least one
member/moderator on an egotiscal authority kick. Normally these are
someone who has been with a site a while and made numerous post.
Please allow me a minute to give you the just of the details. I did Google search on a debt collector and it led me to your site. I signed up and become a member as I have a wealth of knowledge and experience to share. I went to the thread and it was still open despite the fact that it was a year and a half old. I posted my experience with the intentions that if someone else did the same search, they too would be able to obtain this very helpful info I posted.
Sure enough one of the ego authority kickers just had to come check it out and post her two cents, which is fine, but she is not correct, AND, not only does she live in the same state as me, she is a so-called expert here?
I am referring to OhioGal1. Now let me give you the facts. Five years ago I was a victim of identity theft and it was fairly easy to resolve, all
except for one credit card account I have and FIA Card Service (a
subsidiary of Bank of America) decided to play dirty, keep the account
open and be a bit extra greedy. The account was closed by the original
creditor which I made my stand and the secondly, the account was a result of identity theft. In short if OhioGal1 was sure an expert, then she would know that it prohibitied by federal law to sell or transfer any account associated with identity theft.
Further she would also be fully aware that a class action lawsuit was
brough against FIA for their fraudulent banking practices. Additionally
she would know that FIA sold the rights to all accounts for the years
2009 and 2010. Moverover these account were sold to a national debt buyer in April 2010 and the class action suit was brought about in Oct. 2010.
As an "Expert" and living in Ohio, she should know that in court of law,
if the case is dismissed, the plaintiff has a second attempt. OhioGal1
should also be aware that qualifying someone for a legal suit based on
info in their credit report is illegal as well as reporting negative and
false info. If an account is sold, then that creditor can only state that
the account has been sold or transfered. Meanwhile a debt collector cannot report they where hired by "XYJ" and turn around and submit a bogus one page robosigned bill of sale affidavit.
Moreover, they cant knowingly have a copy of a person's credit report and knowing instruct the court to improperly serve a person to a prior known address when the credit report shows the updated address well in advance.
And if Ms. OhioGal1 was a real "Expert" she would know that dealing with a debt collector and sending them payment, it is better to pay with a money order and then send it certified mail.
Lets look at her egotistical and authoritive post while giving false facts.
"Well hello there, Mr. CP. Let's clear up a few things, shall we?
First, this thread is a year and a half old. Questions have already been
answered. Why are you adding your nonsense now?
Quote:
Here is the deal and it is a double edge sword! If the debtor sends any
payment to any debt collector it should be ALWAYS sent certified mail and they do have the right to accept or deny your payment(s).
OhioGal1- "This is BS. You don't have to send your payments via certified mail. Why would you? Your canceled check is plenty enough proof that the payment was received.'
Truth: If your "Expert" was one then she would know that a check is giving the debt collector your bank account info. If for some reason the debtor doesn't pay, then the debt collector can seek judgment and then garnishment and how do they know where your bank is and what your account number is?
Quote:
HOWEVER, if they accept your payment and it has been some time, it will reset the statue of limitations to that date.
OhioGal1 - "First of all, it's statute of limitations. There's no
"statue." Secondly, this is also BS. It's very rare that making a payment to a CA will reset the SOL."
Just gotta point out a typo and let's correct your "Expert" again. The
charge off date starts the clock ticking on the SOL and if you make no
payments for 2 years and live in Delaware, the SOL is 3, But you begin
making payments for a year and stop due to hardship. What is the SOL start date? THE LAST ACTIVITY! Maybe this lady should come sit in on my court hirings and become educated!
Quote:
If on the other hand, they deny our payment(s), then they do not have
"grounds" or "foundation" to seek adverse action (legal suit) again you.
If they do, then you have them.
OhioGal1 - "More BS. Where do you get this stuff? If they own the debt, can prove you owe it and are within the SOL, they can sue."
How to Deal with Unlicensed/Illegal Payday Lenders - Step by Step
Instructions
If you sent the payments in a money order form and certified mail, she
would know you get the green card back with a signature on it. Further, when they don't accept your payments and decide to file suit as they tried on me, well they have no grounds!
Your "Expert" would also know that if the debt collector has say 6
statements, they can say they sent a demand letter without doing so and then go ahead and file a civil and the statements be VALIDATION!The court doesn't any better unless the debtor contest it. But how is that possible when the debt collector knowing has the court send the summons to a prior know address?
Now Gentleman, this moderator on her ego high horse want to question just where I am getting this from? Well I went through it! Out of it I formed a consumer protection company and obtained 8 law firms to assist us. We try to provide low cost legal services to those who normally can't afford it.
And for Ms. OhioGal1, I also work for a State of Ohio agency that has
legal clout over businesses.
Let me also quickly point out that from our services, we have been able to obtain the Forward Flow Loan Agreements (Assignments) from 8 national banks and other lenders to the debt buyers. We are trying to help people who suffered robosigning mortgages and credit card debts by send the full assignments to them for free.
Unfortunately your Golden Child Expert, OhioGal1 with her Godly moderator powers deleted those post and as you seen above, well we are full of it!
One last thing, Look at OhioGal1"s posts and at the bottom she has a nice link to a nice little post on how to deal with Payday Loans and banks. It is very sad that she is ignorant enough to not know the truth or the facts. In that post she tells readers to file a compalint with FTC and the Attorney General's office. Again she is clueless that all government agencies are under budget cuts. I will be the first to tell anyone just how that is with working for a state agency! But let's have someone else explain it to Ms. OhioGal1:
"Not enough information [is] flowing through to debt collectors," says Tom Pahl, an assistant director in the Federal Trade Commission's division of financial practices. Despite its concern, the FTC lacks the authority to regulate financial institutions."
"We can't reach the banks to say 'Thou shalt file the following pieces of
information with the loans,'" Pahl says. "We're trying to do most of this
through either law enforcement, which is case-by-case, or by jawboning the industry."
OhioGal1 would have been better to state the following is she was more of and "Expert" and less on the ego and authority:
The CFPB is "very concerned that the same shortcuts and violations may be occurring with other kinds of debt collection," she says.
The OCC, which likewise oversees banks, declined to comment on specific institutions' sales of credit card receivables. However, it expects banks to adhere to high standards regarding account records, especially in cases where institutions attest under oath to their accuracy, according to OCC spokesman Bryan Hubbard.
Sadly enough, in our agency, we are pushing the complaints to the side and attempting to assist those people with complaints by forwarding them to the proper agency that has jurisdiction.
It is very unfortunate that you have people like OhioGal1 posting
questionable information when people really need help! On the other hand, it is also sad and unfortunate that when people have sound information that can help others, you have people like here posting her egotistical thoughts rather than seeing the facts.
It is be nice if you guys would have a talk with her and her stop deleting my post over her personal issues.
Thanks!
Dean
Mr. Consumer Protection
[/QUOTE]
Please don't give replies in such a way that we loose community members from our site. The poster has spent a considerable amount of time to post his concern. So in order to give a proper acknowledgement to his concern, we are expecting an answer from your end.
Just a reminder..
Please don't be rude while replying as it gives a wrong impression to our site.
Please don't keep on deleting posts.
Oh please....the only one egotistical poster here is Mr Consumer
Oh please....the only one egotistical poster here is Mr Consumer Protection. I caught errors in his posts and he so far he has chosen to ignore HIS incorrect information. He is clearly trolling for business. In many of the cases he was responding to very old posts where the original poster was unregistered...what is the point of him flapping his gums when no one is listening???
Yes we delete posts...again the majority of them are unregistered/anonoymous posters who add nothing to thread/hand out bad information or simply parrot what the 3 previous poster has said. We cannot notify/correct unregistered posters so they just continue posting the same crap.
We do our damnest to make sure everyone gets the best most correct answer possible. Yeah, we can get testy at times with some of the idiots you post here. When was the last time you spend a day babysitting this forum?? That is what it feels like some days....we have to go thru every thread, just to make sure that these idiot unregistered posters are not confusing the original poster. Not to mention the 20-30 posters (again unregistered) who think we are their creditor. If they had to register, I think it would become clear to them that we are not Citibank or the collection agency they are trying to reach. Of course they never return to thank us for removing their social security number, birthdate and full contact information from the forum.
Jason...you need to back our decisions up....let us do what we do best. You obviously dont get letters of praise from the hundreds of people we help on a daily basis. The people who complain to you either dont like the reality check we are giving them or they are simply here to grandstand.
Thanks, Lynn. I appreciate the support. I'm certainly not gett
Thanks, Lynn. I appreciate the support. I'm certainly not getting it from the top, obviously.
Jason,
Let me address this.
Quote:
Sure enough one of the ego authority kickers just had to come check it out and post her two cents, which is fine, but she is not correct, AND, not only does she live in the same state as me, she is a so-called expert here? |
Yes, I had to come check it out because it showed up as a new post since my last visit and, as SoapLady said, we have to now read every single post, even the ones that have already been answered, because of people like this guy who dredge up old posts that have been dead for over a year. As a moderator, that's what I'm supposed to do. The OP's original question had already been answered and not only did this guy not add anything really new, he added INCORRECT information that needed to be corrected. That's what I'm supposed to be doing around here, or so I thought.
Quote:
In short if OhioGal1 was sure an expert, then she would know that it prohibitied by federal law to sell or transfer any account associated with identity theft. |
I'd like to know what this federal law is. The FCRA outlines all the steps necessary for removing inaccurately reported items.
Quote:
Further she would also be fully aware that a class action lawsuit was brought against FIA for their fraudulent banking practices. |
Lawsuits are filed against banks and collection agencies on a daily basis. This is public knowledge.
Quote:
As an "Expert" and living in Ohio, she should know that in court of law, if the case is dismissed, the plaintiff has a second attempt. OhioGal1 should also be aware that qualifying someone for a legal suit based on info in their credit report is illegal as well as reporting negative and false info. If an account is sold, then that creditor can only state that the account has been sold or transfered. Meanwhile a debt collector cannot report they where hired by "XYJ" and turn around and submit a bogus one page robosigned bill of sale affidavit. |
This is a bunch of BS. A collector can run your credit report and you would be hard pressed to prove, in a court of law, that they were running it for any other reason that to find out information for their collection purposes.
Quote:
Moreover, they cant knowingly have a copy of a person's credit report and knowing instruct the court to improperly serve a person to a prior known address when the credit report shows the updated address well in advance. |
Happens all the time. Prove it in court and you win. This is pretty common knowledge, again. This type of information is discussed all the time here. This speaks to my point that this guy offered nothing new to the thread.
Quote:
And if Ms. OhioGal1 was a real "Expert" she would know that dealing with a debt collector and sending them payment, it is better to pay with a money order and then send it certified mail. |
Certified mail is a waste of money in this case. If a debt has been validated and you're paying, a check, debit or credit card is perfectly fine. It will create an indisputable record of the payment, should the need arise. Further, certified mail with a return receipt only proves that the mail was received. It doesn't prove that the payment was posted.
Quote:
Lets look at her egotistical and authoritive post while giving false facts. "Well hello there, Mr. CP. Let's clear up a few things, shall we? First, this thread is a year and a half old. Questions have already been answered. Why are you adding your nonsense now? |
Yep. I said that. And I stand by it.
Quote:
Here is the deal and it is a double edge sword! If the debtor sends any payment to any debt collector it should be ALWAYS sent certified mail and they do have the right to accept or deny your payment(s). OhioGal1- "This is BS. You don't have to send your payments via certified mail. Why would you? Your canceled check is plenty enough proof that the payment was received.' |
Yep. Said that too and I'm standing by it as per my explanation above.
Quote:
Truth: If your "Expert" was one then she would know that a check is giving the debt collector your bank account info. If for some reason the debtor doesn't pay, then the debt collector can seek judgment and then garnishment and how do they know where your bank is and what your account number is? |
If they're going to garnish you, they'll find your checking account info anyway. And, if you're not paying, that's their right (assuming the debt is valid).
Quote:
HOWEVER, if they accept your payment and it has been some time, it will reset the statue of limitations to that date. OhioGal1 - "First of all, it's statute of limitations. There's no "statue." Secondly, this is also BS. It's very rare that making a payment to a CA will reset the SOL." Just gotta point out a typo and let's correct your "Expert" again. The charge off date starts the clock ticking on the SOL and if you make no payments for 2 years and live in Delaware, the SOL is 3, But you begin making payments for a year and stop due to hardship. What is the SOL start date? THE LAST ACTIVITY! Maybe this lady should come sit in on my court hirings and become educated! |
So, he goes from quoting Ohio law to now pointing out DE law. I stand by my statement. You can default on an account, not pay anything for 2 years then make a payment. Unless that payment brings the account current, you're still in default. VERY few states restart the SOL clock due to "any" account activity.
Quote:
If on the other hand, they deny our payment(s), then they do not have "grounds" or "foundation" to seek adverse action (legal suit) again you. If they do, then you have them. OhioGal1 - "More BS. Where do you get this stuff? If they own the debt, can prove you owe it and are within the SOL, they can sue." |
His statement here is simply incorrect. As I said, if they can prove you owe the debt and are within SOL, they can sue you. Refusing your payment does not discount this.
Quote:
If you sent the payments in a money order form and certified mail, she would know you get the green card back with a signature on it. Further, when they don't accept your payments and decide to file suit as they tried on me, well they have no grounds! |
I'm pretty sure I know about the "little green card" as I tell people about sending things via certified mail with a return receipt on a daily basis. Again, what he's saying is false.
Quote:
Your "Expert" would also know that if the debt collector has say 6 statements, they can say they sent a demand letter without doing so and then go ahead and file a civil and the statements be VALIDATION!The court doesn't any better unless the debtor contest it. But how is that possible when the debt collector knowing has the court send the summons to a prior know address? |
If you don't receive a proper summons, you can have judgments set aside for improper service. If a dunning letter was never received, complaints for FDCPA violations and counter suits can be filed.
Quote:
Now Gentleman, this moderator on her ego high horse want to question just where I am getting this from? Well I went through it! Out of it I formed a consumer protection company and obtained 8 law firms to assist us. We try to provide low cost legal services to those who normally can't afford it. And for Ms. OhioGal1, I also work for a State of Ohio agency that has legal clout over businesses. |
And there you have it. This guy is here to drum up business, to make money off of people. WE, on the other hand are here to HELP people get through these things for themselves and not get taken advantage of by fly-by-night leeches like this guy.
Quote:
Unfortunately your Golden Child Expert, OhioGal1 with her Godly moderator powers deleted those post and as you seen above, well we are full of it! |
I didn't delete any of this guys posts. I felt it was more beneficial to correct him in the open forum so that others wouldn't fall for his nonsense. I'm not sure who deleted his posts, but it wasn't me.
[QUOTE]One last thing, Look at OhioGal1"s posts and at the bottom she has a nice link to a nice little post on how to deal with Payday Loans and banks. It is very sad that she is ignorant enough to not know the truth or the facts. In that post she tells readers to file a compalint with FTC and the Attorney General's office. Again she is clueless that all government agencies are under budget cuts. I will be the first to tell anyone just how that is with working for a state agency! But let's have someone else explain it to Ms. OhioGal1:
"Not enough information [is] flowing through to debt collectors," says Tom Pahl, an assistant director in the Federal Trade Commission's division of financial practices. Despite its concern, the FTC lacks the authority to regulate financial institutions."
"We can't reach the banks to say 'Thou shalt file the following pieces of
information with the loans,'" Pahl says. "We're trying to do most of this
through either law enforcement, which is case-by-case, or by jawboning the industry." [/QUOTE]
We suggest these complaints get filed to promote awareness. Our agencies have no jurisdiction over offshore and tribal lenders. I'm aware of this and explain it to people over and over again. These agencies do, however, send cease and desist orders to these illegally operating organizations on occasion and sometimes they help. Period.
Further, the FTC doesn't regulate banks, they help consumers. Banks are regulated by the FDIC, OCC and FRB. These payday "lenders" that we're helping people deal with here aren't financial institutions, per se. Hence the FTC, AG and state financial regulatory agency complaints we recommend.
Quote:
OhioGal1 would have been better to state the following is she was more of and "Expert" and less on the ego and authority: The CFPB is "very concerned that the same shortcuts and violations may be occurring with other kinds of debt collection," she says. The OCC, which likewise oversees banks, declined to comment on specific institutions' sales of credit card receivables. However, it expects banks to adhere to high standards regarding account records, especially in cases where institutions attest under oath to their accuracy, according to OCC spokesman Bryan Hubbard. Sadly enough, in our agency, we are pushing the complaints to the side and attempting to assist those people with complaints by forwarding them to the proper agency that has jurisdiction. |
He was criticizing me regarding my "payday loan" advice, now he's switched to collections. Which is it? I can't keep up.
Quote:
It is very unfortunate that you have people like OhioGal1 posting questionable information when people really need help! On the other hand, it is also sad and unfortunate that when people have sound information that can help others, you have people like here posting her egotistical thoughts rather than seeing the facts. |
This guy is an asshole. Plain and simple. He's here to drum up business and take advantage of people who don't know any better. My job is to make sure that they DO know better and DON'T get taken advantage of.
Quote:
It is be nice if you guys would have a talk with her and her stop deleting my post over her personal issues. |
Again, I didn't delete any posts that he made.
Thanks so much for the talk, Jason. I really appreciate it.
Quote:In that post she tells readers to file a compalint with FT
Quote:
In that post she tells readers to file a compalint with FTC and the Attorney General's office. Again she is clueless that all government agencies are under budget cuts. I will be the first to tell anyone just how that is with working for a state agency! But let's have someone else explain it to Ms. OhioGal1: |
I missed this part! What an idiot! Does he realize those complaints to state AG's office's are resulting in lawsuits being filed against PDL's and state laws being changed??
Maybe he is a janitor for a state agency?? He is clearly clueless.
please jason
look at this morons posts in the forum.his info is horrible,and wrong.plus his attitude is arrogant,and standoffish.before taking this to us look at the newbie first.i'm actually stating they should be warned as a precusor to banishment.his attitude on the forums is that bad.in fact others are noticing and posting in regards to that as well.that should count for something.
He just posted again and I refuse to engage in his banter. I cl
He just posted again and I refuse to engage in his banter. I closed the thread.
hopefully
i took him on in the thread titled"call from 8565304239 where i must have hit a nerve as he says he's not posting anymore.let's hope he keeps his word,but i will still be watching for him.he is a fountain of misinformation.
Jason, this really needs to stop.....
With all respect to you, I am flat out tired of being second-guessed about everything. ESPECIALLY in a case like this.
Say what you will about the complaint you received--the fact of the matter is this-if you care enough to be concerned about the rules here, then care enough to actually compare the complaint to truth and see which one wins. The complaint you received in this case is complete BS. All sorts of bad information! And you should not be defending a complaint like that when it was corrected in the open, just as you asked us to do! So, when we delete BS posts, you complain....and when ohio corrects these ridiculous mistakes in the open, as you asked us to do, you complain. How are we as moderators supposed to ensure that true and correct information exists on this forum when no matter how this BS gets handled, we are in the wrong for it?!?
Come on, just look at the complainer's statements!!! This is a perfect example of a real gem:
Quote:
Moreover, they cant knowingly have a copy of a person's credit report and knowing instruct the court to improperly serve a person to a prior known address when the credit report shows the updated address well in advance. |
Jason, COME ON ALREADY! Every moderator here, and you as well, knows full well that debt collectors pull stunts like that EVERY DAY in courts.....they are not SUPPOSED TO, but they STILL DO IT. For someone to pretend that it isnt happening or does not happen, well, that person is simply delusional.
I would like to know when the administration of this forum is going to back its moderating staff in front of the members. I moderate on other forums as well, and my wife is part owner of one. I have NEVER seen a forum where the admins are so wary of backing their mods publicly....
You have a wealth of knowledge in your mod staff, Jason.....this is not at all a threat, but a simple observation--if you do not back these people, you will lose some of them from your staff and your forum. I would much rather have to ask a mod to tone down a little bit and thank them for ensuring true info is present and false info is purged, than to lose very knowledgeable mods from my staff because of nonsense like this.
No, we do not want to chase off LEGITIMATE members. No, we do not want to turn this place into a police state. But if given the choice, I would rather have one Ohiogal on my forum than a thousand complainers who are butt-hurt because they got caught posting a lot of false information. THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT WHAT WE NEED HERE. And they are NOT worth losing a moderator over. This all goes back to what I said last time--there needs to be a clear-cut mission for this forum, detailed enough that we all can know for certain what the priority is here. Is it to help people who come here looking for legit answers? Or is it to drive up traffic no matter how much bad information shows up? We need to know, Jason. I have asked this question multiple times, and have yet to receive any answer. If the truth is the focus, then you need to stop siding with people who send you a complaint filled with fallacies. Please, read that complaint again! Look at the responses from Ohio that this person complained about! Ohio's info was dead on the money! The moment that much BS shows up in front of you, it should trip a dozen red flags about the rest of the person's complaint.....
It would have been better if the poster would have come to know
It would have been better if the poster would have come to know about his posting mistakes from OG's answer in details in the concerned thread itself but then the discussion never happened (as it got deleted) . It is always better for a poster to know his/her mistakes through a discussion than the poster going back with complaints and publishing negative comments in other sites about moderators of this forums on how posters are being denied from posting here. Hence we made a request to OG to post an answer to his complaint so that she can guide the poster. The poster will think twice before making complaints against our moderators. If you carefully read my previous posts, you will know that we prefer quality first but then as an open forum we want more people to participate. At times you will get posters in between who are cranky. If you have anything to say about an unregistered member's posts, you can always discuss it in the thread itself. If he/she violates ToS, always post your observation with examples and let us do the needful. If you are dealing with registered users, then contact them ..keep us in the loop..let them know your observation. If the poster stills doesn't listen, then send us a mail and we will deal with the poster just like we take actions against solicitors/spam bots. In that case the poster will at least know about our Mod's reason to take a particular action.
The question here is not to lecture moderators but just to remind that such deletion activities are not appreciated by the members. This creates a bad impression on our forums. We hate to see posts like this http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/settlement/atallpossibleand-clearthismatterup.html ( Sub: #4 Settlement ) appearing in our forums
Jason, I have no idea what you're talking about. As I stated i
Jason,
I have no idea what you're talking about. As I stated in my response to the complaint above, I didn't delete any of this guys threads so, what are you talking about?
This is the thread: http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/collection-agencies/lawoffice-of-larryroach-1.html (NOT deleted)
I responded to his post in the thread and corrected his mistakes, as you've asked us to do. And then he complained because, well, I guess he doesn't like being wrong and having it pointed out.
As for the cyber bullying BS thread, did you read the thread where that was posted? Where exactly is this cyber bullying bullshit the unregistered poster is talking about? The OP stated he/she would like to settle his account. No further information was given so another forum member and I both asked for more information.
How exactly is that bullying?
Sky, Paul, Soap, thanks for the backing. Apparently the owners of this site don't care about correct information. They just want a lot of people to sign up.
I'm sick of this.
please jason
trace this douche.i bet it is the same one as mrconsumerprotector.the post is as full of BS as his email to you.trace them both and you will see.
Jason, what I want to know is why you did not point out our Term
Jason, what I want to know is why you did not point out our Terms of Service to this idiot? You could have made a comment to this idiot.
That's what I was wondering. Why didn't you do one or all of th
That's what I was wondering. Why didn't you do one or all of the following?
1. Point out that he violated TOS by posting his email and other links.
2. Point out that I was simply stating my opinion and correcting his errors, based my opinion AND PER MY INSTRUCTIONS FROM YOU!
3. Check out his claims that I had deleted his posts and explain to him that I did NOT.
Instead, you gladly accept his complaint against me, take his word for truth and slap me in the moderator forum.
Nice. Good to know where I stand and how much I'm valued around here.
Thanks so much for your support, Jason.
I propose that for 24 hours the mods do NOTHING. Maybe then Jas
I propose that for 24 hours the mods do NOTHING. Maybe then Jason will see what a fucked up mess this forum becomes.
Dear Mods We do everything that is needed to do from our end in
Dear Mods
We do everything that is needed to do from our end in a situation like this so that people don't get negative impression about our moderators.
Since this forum is for discussions about how to improve our site, taking down your observation about members, it is also about showing how others are viewing our moderators of our forums. Just like we boast of our moderators/experts' knowledge here as well as in other places, we feel it is our responsibility to show you negative feedbacks that come from other members (registered or unregistered)
Like I said before, it is not about any particular person or about particular post/thread deletion issue.. be it controversial posts or questions asked by posters which looks obvious to us (not talking about the url referred here or spams) but overall how other registered/unregistered members are thinking or may think about our moderators.
Since we feel moderators are very valuable to our site, we don't want their image to be misrepresented or misinterpreted. The main purpose thus was to make you aware about the recent flurry of complaints that we are receiving/noticing. This was just to remind moderators that actions without stating proper reasons bring a negative impression to our site just like your good works gets reflected through our promotions and member testimonials.
We need to make sure next time if anyone complaints about our mods then like I said in my previous reply ... [QUOTE]The poster will think twice before making complaints against our moderators./QUOTE]
Jason
But, Jason. What you're not getting is that this guy's complain
But, Jason. What you're not getting is that this guy's complaint is bullshit. The gist of his complaint was that I deleted his post. I didn't. He further complained about what? Me correcting his bad information? I thought that's what I was supposed to be doing.
Hello OG Quote:We are getting frequent complaints about moderat
Hello OG
Quote:
We are getting frequent complaints about moderators' attitude here and post deletion. Just take a look at one such mails that we keep on receiving. |
OG, the poster had mailed me some of his observations where he said your information was false. I only asked you to give a reply so that you can make your points clear from your end and we too can mail him the response from our end. I only wanted to help you out so that we can make a reply on behalf of you and even added that the mailer/poster will think twice before making complaints against our moderators,again. What was wrong here? Asking you to reply so that we can put across your view to the mailer was wrong? Was posting the mail content here was wrong? But then.. I had send you pm before (PM sent on 05-16-2012.. but unfortunately we have so far not received any response from your end till date.) If you remember I had asked you to reply why a particular post was deleted as the thread was unanswered (at the time I sent you the pm). The poster had simply acknowledged the post of the OP and asked the OP to check back replies from experts. We have repeatedly told moderators not to delete such posts, as we think OP should not feel being ignored (our experience shows they tend to do so when they get no replies after they post questions). And since it is not always possible for moderators to be present all the time we have repeatedly asked you not to delete posts which welcomes a new member to our site or simply asks the poster to check back for replies from expert (not talking of the 'quality' answers here).
Henceforth if we get similar complaints against any moderator, we will put the mail content here in this forum and seek your response so that we can mail your response to the mailer. This forum after all is for moderators only and there is nothing wrong is discussing issues involving moderators.
Apart from posting, a moderator's main function here is to delete spams (clarification not required for deleting spams). If there are solicitation issues, you are first required to mail/pm the solicitor keeping us in the loop. There are ways in our forums where one can insert company links also as per our updated tos. No one is supposed to lock any thread just because you don't agree with any poster. Imagine, I lock this thread or delete posts just because there is a difference of opinion. Would you like that? We are an open forum not a private site. Again if you have any issues with members relating to personal attack and so on, let us know. One must go through proper channels before taking any actions. I have repeatedly said this before.
I repeat it is not about any particular thread, not about a particular moderator but about some recent happenings that is taking place in our forums.
Quote:Apart from posting, a moderator's main function here is to
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Apart from posting, a moderator's main function here is to delete spams (clarification not required for deleting spams). |
If you had proper spam filters in place, then what would be the need for moderators??? Force people to register, put proper spam filters in place...then come in yourself each morning and delete the little spam that comes thru.
Jason...you just do not get it. We as moderators are trying to provide a QUALITY board for people in financial distress. QUANTITY of posts are useless when the answers are downright wrong. Everyday we have to deal with unregistered parrot posters who post wrong information or cut and paste posts. WE CANNOT EMAIL THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE UNREGISTERED!!! We delete these useless answers. We have regular posters like Ditchadebt who doesnt have an original thought in his head. I delete.
What do you want?? Advertising revenue and traffic or a forum that truly helps people with quality answers and solutions. One of your other boards, CreditMagic seems to have the same issues with garbage posts. You seem to be working AGAINST us, not with us so it really makes me wonder.
Jason, What? First, the tone of your original post about h
Jason,
What?
First, the tone of your original post about how moderators need to follow the rules too, had a definite tone that WE are doing something wrong by correcting inaccurate information, which is what you've asked us to do. I would hope that you could comprehend our confusion due to that contradiction.
Second, you sent me a PM in May, yes, but you certainly did not ask me to reply to you via PM as to why the post was deleted.
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Hi We would appreciate if you give a reply in this thread (http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com...d.php?t=164236) as the thread is lying unanswered because one post was deleted. Jason |
First, the post I deleted in the thread mentioned in your PM was made by blankspace and, as I noted, was completely pointless. It didn't answer the OP's question, didn't add value, didn't ask for more information in order to answer the question, etc. It was completely useless, as the majority of spaceblank's posts are/were.
Second, when I clicked on the link in the PM, it HAD been answered by both Nathaniel (who asked a clarifying question) and SoapLady (who gave a suggestion on how to find the answer the OP had asked). I didn't see a need to also respond as I didn't have anything more to add to the conversation. Unlike posters like spaceblank, who post simply for the sake of posting, I try to limit my posts and contribute only when I have the answer, or can add to or correct an answer that's already been given.
And finally, you really don't get it. We've all tried and tried to explain it to you. You need to answer the question we've all been asking you once and for all. What is the goal of this site? Is it traffic or is it accurate information? Pick one.
OG Quote:WE are doing something wrong by correcting inaccurate
OG
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WE are doing something wrong by correcting inaccurate information |
No one has ever asked you not to correct inaccurate information here. In fact we have always encouraged to Correct them. What we also asked is that if you delete any "bad post" make sure you reply back, if you get any mail/pm asking for the right answer or asking reason why a particular post was deleted.
As far as the second part of your post is concerned ..
Have you checked the time gap between the first reply and the second reply? (FYI nearly one month = 04-30-2012, 06:07 AM to 05-26-2012, 05:56 AM) Point is when we have repeatedly told you not to delete such posts, why are you still deleting them? And when you are deleting them why are you not bothering to reply either in the thread (so that the thread don't remain unanswered after you delete such posts) or to the pm sent then? Check the time difference between spaceblank's post, asking to wait for expert comment and Nathaniel's reply. It is long enough to let the OP feel that his/her post is being ignored here. Imagine you posting a question in a forum and no one coming to give a reply to your question or even welcoming you for a long time.
We had a point when we announced to keep such posts. (Please read my previous threads where I have explained the need to keep such posts) It may be pointless to you. Just because "you think" such posts are "not necessary" doesn't mean you have every right to delete them.
You have made your observations regarding few registered member's post quality here and we from our end asked them not to post further.
traffic or accurate information? -- I have already replied before, if you read my previous posts you will know, what we are looking for.. accurate information with accountability will eventually drive traffic.
We will soon develop a system where we will track all mod activities. If we find similar posts being deleted, we will restore them. If things go out of hand we will implement negative mod points.
Posts which require correction .. You are free to maintain "quality" (no one has ever asked you not to do so) but make sure you have ready answers when members ask you to give a proper reason for deleting a particular post/thread. Don't ignore such pms/mails. So, next time whenever any member send any pm/mail or post questions in the thread concerning their post deletion issue,the concerned moderator will need to satisfy his/her query as to why his/her post was deleted. Just stating wrong/false answer will not do. Either post the correct answer in the next reply (for unregistered) or reply via mail/pm (for registered) when asked to do so. We too will be in the loop in your communication.
Note : We received a complain from Kate Kelly regarding post deletion in social answer. Her post was first deleted without stating any reason. After she reposted the same and complained in the open about her post deletion, she received a comment. We have snapshot of the post.
so picking quality + accountability = traffic .
You know, kate.kelley12 is one of our idiot posters and I am not
You know, kate.kelley12 is one of our idiot posters and I am not even going to bother arguing because you jason will not listen,
Kate Kelly? Who signed up in March, posted 7 posts and hasn't b
Kate Kelly? Who signed up in March, posted 7 posts and hasn't been back until today to congratulate the QOM winner. Who has made 8 posts in this forum. 8! half of which are "yes, I agree with _______."
Wow!
That's quality, Jason.
I'm done arguing with you. You don't listen and it's obvious that the only thing you care about it traffic to this site. You say you want to ensure there's quality here but your actions contradict your words.
Yes Ohio...,the same Kate Kelly who posts the same quality answe
Yes Ohio...,the same Kate Kelly who posts the same quality answers in Social Answers. She does not bring anything to the the forum except for work for the moderators monitoring her stupid posts.
Jason, these contradictions are really becoming an issue. You
Jason, these contradictions are really becoming an issue.
You say that you want quality but you refuse to allow us to exercise our experienced judgment to that end. A person whose entire posting history on this forum brings no info to the table is not quality. We have had this discussion before....likewise, a person who comes here and posts nothing but false info and even argues to try to defend their posts, well, that takes away value. You cannot add value by defending what takes away value.
Another issue with the contradictions is appointing brand new members as moderators or debt samaritans. You yourself posted on this forum in April of this year that the moderators are senior members here--how "senior" can a person be after one month?
You talk about other forums? You mention how other forums run smoothly, and that you want the same for this place? Most forums do not utilize moderators solely as e-janitors, to remove spam. On most forums, the admins are required to stick to the same guidelines for everyone. On most forums, the higher ups show support for their moderators because it is generally understood that the moderators had to earn their positions.
For someone who spends so much time talking about how you fully trust and believe in your moderators, you sure have a funny way of showing it. You want to know how to handle complaints from people? Like anyone else--first, you check to see if the complaint has any merit. If you find that it does not, then you inform the complainer of that. If you find that it does, THAT is the time to point a finger. You now have told us of two complaints--both of which come from people who add zero value to the forum, and one of which comes from someone who is flat out wrong and still argues their point trying to be right. Without even apparently looking into the complaint, you assumed that OG did something wrong. You used that assumption to tell us that "mods need to follow the rules too".
When will you admit that you do not trust the mods here? Come on, it's more than obvious....you refuse to allow the mods to address older posts. you refuse to allow the mods to do the same tasks that darn near every other forum on the web sets aside for their mods to do. Come clean already....
Nothing more to add really to what I have already said before..
Nothing more to add really to what I have already said before.. So just quoting few of my previous answers again.
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jason will not listen, |
You have made your observations regarding few registered member's post quality here and we from our end asked them not to post further.
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contradictions is appointing brand new members as moderators or debt samaritans. |
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You say that you want quality but you refuse to allow us to exercise our experienced judgment to that end. |
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Most forums do not utilize moderators solely as e-janitors, to remove spam. |
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On most forums, the admins are required to stick to the same guidelines for everyone. |
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When will you admit that you do not trust the mods here? |
You are free to maintain "quality" (no one has ever asked you not to do so) but make sure you have ready answers when members ask you to give a proper reason for deleting a particular post/thread. Don't ignore such pms/mails. So, next time whenever any member send any pm/mail or post questions in the thread concerning their post deletion issue,the concerned moderator will need to satisfy his/her query as to why his/her post was deleted. Just stating wrong/false answer will not do. Either post the correct answer in the next reply (for unregistered) or reply via mail/pm (for registered) when asked to do so. We too will be in the loop in your communication.
note : We are not anyone's blind supporter here.. complaints against members by mods and complaints against mods by members will be addressed here.
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you refuse to allow the mods to address older posts. |
If you notice any new spam/solicitation posts, say today in a 15 day old thread,then you should be able to delete them.
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Kate Kelly? Who signed up in March, posted 7 posts and hasn't been back until today to congratulate the QOM winner. Who has made 8 posts in this forum. |
just add 73 posts is social answer ..
fyi I'm no way either defending her nor accusing SL. I have even given your feedback to her. I'm just referring to this particular post (not her other posts) which SL deleted and Kelly wants to know an answer as to why it was deleted. It is as simple as that.
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the only thing you care about it traffic to this site. |
accurate information with accountability will eventually drive traffic. ok let me make it clear what we care about ..We care about accurate information and responsible moderation as both will help our forum drive more traffic.
SL we found these answers deleted by you. Please don't delete such answers again. Attaching snapshots of the answers (just kept one, in case it got deleted. (remember last time I pm'd you a url along with the answer content and suddenly they got deleted . . anyways)
Also can you please give a reply here so that the thread don't remain unanswered. If the answer is wrong please correct it, give a reason for deletion. We DON"T want unanswered threads. ( http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179639 )
[QUOTE]decision relating to Moderator and Debt Samaritan selecti
[QUOTE]decision relating to Moderator and Debt Samaritan selection will be taken by us. [/QUOTE]
Those decisions were already previously made by you guys as to what the requirements were. As recently as a few months ago, you were still sticking to what was already "decided" when you stated in here that the mods are the senior members. Then you go and change it at will, not for the good of the forum, but for your own reasons. That doesnt work, Jason. Either have one standard--the same for everyone--or don't. But you cannot talk out both sides of your mouth and expect it to be proper--it isnt. I cannot imagine why this is such a hard concept for you to understand. ONE standard for EVERYONE, Jason--nothing else works. This is not rocket science.
[QUOTE]
No one has ever asked you not to correct inaccurate information here.[/QUOTE]
Jason, for some time now, we have had to fight it out with you to get things done over people who routinely posted nonsense and refused to follow correction. At times we actually had people act in an illegal fashion, and it actually took me giving you an ultimatum before you would "temporarily suspend" the person. Here's the problem with this whole mess--you have consistently refused to take our advice with several people---like some of the debt samaritan selections--and each time you have ignored what we tried to tell you, your choice ended up proving to be wrong. You insisted on adding people like Anna and Gretchen to the ranks, despite what we all told you about our own observations--you flat out ignored us. And it never worked out well.
If you really want to make such claims now, then you should not be acting in the way you have. We have been going round and round for months now because you have simply ignored our concerns. A cut & paste answer from you, repeated in red text, does nothing to change this fact.
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Check suggestions,feedbacks from mod in this forum itself. We have implemented most of them which our tech team found feasible |
I have made some of those suggestions...and I have seen them ignored. We all have made plenty of suggestions and watched you ignore them when it comes to the people here. You declared us to be "like the parents of the forum", Jason, a few months ago. yet you consistently ignore our suggestions and observations about the people here?
[QUOTE]Note : Rules will be flexible here. We will take decision based on obsevations,feedback.. [/QUOTE]
In other words, we are not supposed to "rock the boat" when you show favoritism or act in a manner inconsistent with the good of the forum....? I saw no such flexibility when I was first approached and asked about becoming a mod....I saw flexibility AGAINST THE TOS when it came to the whole mess with Gretchen! You were flexible IN HER FAVOR--a bad apple that EVEN YOU admitted had a bad history of abusing the TOS here....and you STILL ignored the TOS when she lost it so badly that she took to bombarding one of your moderators with threats in both PMs and personal emails.....
This is NOT the kind of flexibility that allows a forum to grow and succeed, Jason. Some things simply must be flexible--and some things simply must not be. You chose to act against the best interest of your moderators in those cases and others....and now you want to talk about "flexible"??
[QUOTE]You are free to maintain "quality" (no one has ever asked you not to do so) but make sure you have ready answers when members ask you to give a proper reason for deleting a particular post/thread.[/QUOTE]
No, Jason, we have not been "free to maintain quality". We have been "free" to correct people that clearly do not take to correcting, and after bugging you about it several times, something might get done about it in the way of you contacting the person or them being banned. We have been free to maintain whatever changing level of quality you dictated at the time. We have TOS in place for a reason--and that reason is not so that favoritism can be shown to people associated with one of your friends. It looks VERY bad on a forum when there are rules that everyone must follow--unless you are associated with OVLG, and then you can do whatever the hell you wish. Leadership is supposed to be by example, not by dictation, Jason. Telling everyone to do something while you do something opposite, well, that does not work.
[QUOTE]accurate information with accountability will eventually drive traffic. [/QUOTE]
You have apparently forgotten something, Jason....
Accountability is a two way street.
I served in the military for five years. I saw combat. I was at times put in charge of others. While rank matters, NO ONE will respect a "leader" that says one thing but does the opposite. If I tried to lead my squad downrange the way you have tried to lead here, I would have been in a whole lot of hurt. For some reason, you do not seem to understand that.
You want this forum to run smoothly?
1--apply the TOS evenly, to EVERYONE, without favoritism
2--listen to your mods! We bring our observations to you for a reason! The mods are like the non commissioned officers on a forum--and a smart officer considers what the NCOs say because the NCOs are the ones who deal with the troops every day. The NCOs make observations that the officers are not in a position to see--each and every day.
3--ONE set of qualifications for everyone--not to be changed at the expense of the good of the forum. Nothing against waffles--he's a smart guy. But each and every one of us were smart people before we were eligible for moderator--we had to earn it.
4--be accountable to the mods--no, we are not over you. But you DO need to have a working relationship with the mods here for this to work. Saying one thing and doing the opposite kills that. NO MOD should EVER have to put up the fight with you that I had to put up to get you to stop making excuses for Gretchen and actually do something about it. You will not allow us the power to kick people out, so when the time comes to back your mods, ACTUALLY BACK THEM. Dont just TELL us that you back us! We need to believe in you, that you will do what you should. We don't. That is a direct result of how you have chosen to do things here.
You know, if I had to refer someone to a credit based forum, it
You know, if I had to refer someone to a credit based forum, it sure wouldnt be here. No offense to the other mods, but this forum is embarassing....no wonder why people do not return. I have followed unregistered posts here...they post and never return. Why?? Because they also found credit board forums where they HAD to register and entered into a meaningful discussion with knowledgable mods AND posters. None of the crap that goes on here. I have been spending more and more time over at that forum because of the QUALITY of all around answers....not the quantitiy of cookie cutter, cut and paste, stupid answers you see here from the unregistered posters here. The owners of that forum spends time in everyday in the trenches posting and answering questions. Makes me wonder Jason...do you know anything about credit and collections? PDL laws? State laws?? Makes me wonder...
last time i'm posting on this thread
jason,jason,jason.i don't get you at all.let me break it down.
1)you take every complaint about us at face value without as skydiver said putting in the footwork to see if said complaint has merit.
2)you do ignore our feedback as i asked you to look into mrconsumer protection as they only had 14 posts.you didn't.then when they posted that garbage about cyberbullying as an unregistered i asked you to IP trace both.you didn't.
3)now you want to go to the time to monitor(micromanage)us when actually looking into each complaint would be less work.
my take is you want to be all things to all people except us.if you put as much effort in other aspects of this site as you do scrutinizing us this forum would be alot better than it is.something to think about.
Quote:listen to your mods! well, just few recent ones that we
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listen to your mods! |
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/getting-loan/affordable-interestrate.html3
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/gonnarespondto-thekardashian.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread176634.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread176503.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread175922.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/poststhat-needediting.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/whyarewe-allowingthis.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread172321.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread163974.html
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/howarethese-gettingthrough.html
In case, if I miss something in your posts or I'm absent feel free to remind me.
As far as suggestions are concerned, we can't incorporate all even though we would love to do so. We too have some limitations. Seeing a site I can give thousands of suggestions but that does not mean the site admin will take all my suggestions. They will think it over and over again, considering the positives, negatives and so on..
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Nothing against waffles--he's a smart guy. |
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apply the TOS evenly, to EVERYONE |
If required, we will either request them to take up member status again or in extreme case ban them if required.
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"temporarily suspend" |
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consistently refused to take our advice with several people---like some of the debt samaritan selections-- |
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spends time in everyday in the trenches posting and answering questions .. |
Just curious, do they give points for moderation too? If so, are you allowed to delete welcome notes and get away being even asked by site admin (who remain busy posting) why such post are being deleted..then I have lots of suggestions for them.
FYI as per latest rankings, we are a PR 6 ranked site now. Most of financial keywords related to settlement/consolidation industry ranks in search engines with our site name. And I don't need to tell you the community figures also. More members..more testimonials.. more problems..and yes more craps too. And we must be prepared to deal with all of them. Just need to be patient in dealing with every single post/member.
Soaplady please tell us what was wrong with those posts (those were not even collection/pdl answers..) that I sent you were about thanking a member for sharing information and the other telling a member to [COLOR=#000000][COLOR=DarkRed] visit the thread (where he posted) from time to time.. Here are the posts..
[/COLOR][/COLOR]a) Thanks a lot for sharing this information with us.
[COLOR=#000000]b) It is true that thousands of people have lost money because of the roll-over trap. Visit this thread from time to time. Some forum members will surely share their experiences.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Black][/COLOR]I repeat Soaplady can you please explain what was wrong in those posts that you deleted?
BTW I'm happy to see that you posted (we asked you to do so) in the thread that was lying unanswered after you deleted the wrong answer. That's what exactly what we are looking for here.. See I have not barred you from correcting wrong answer. Seems like you are getting my point now.
Paul, its not about one garbage poster or one thread or one post. In your case we have seen a registered member who joined way back in 2006 and returned to post here was shown the door. We did not receive any response in spite of my initiative to know the "merit of the complaint" as sent by the member (check pm snapshot). The concerned member went on to make negative posts in his site (check snapshot) because of 1) the way he was shown the door 2) mod language and attitude with the member (use of words like get lost). If you had issues with his link in his post or other issues, you could have asked me about what to do with his link.. but you decided to do otherwise.
Again.. I just shared few examples of the complaints or posts which we could have kept here so that you can be aware of what's taking place in the forums.
Dont know why you post screen shots...they are unreadable and ar
Dont know why you post screen shots...they are unreadable and are pointless.
I am tired of arguing. Paul has already left, and I will be going back to work full time on the 24th. I will correct each stupid and idiotic post and not delete them. It will show the community and onlookers the caliber (or lack thereof) of the posters on this site.
Quote:well, just few recent ones that we listened to.. Jason, w
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well, just few recent ones that we listened to.. |
Jason, we just pointed out several that were ignored--and should not have been! Ignoring those and posting examples of others, how does that address what was said to you? Seriously?
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We have already started working on new set of rules and guidelines for our moderators |
Thats all well and good, but until the new guidelines are in place, arent the current ones still the ones in effect? It is not right to simply throw those in the toilet as a shot fired back at the mods who posted that they were taking a 24 hour strike like you did. You ignored the CURRENT set of requirements to thumb your nose at the ones that walked out. That is not for the good of the forum, it was for your own motivations. Throwing out the current, in-place requirements for a personal reason is not conducive to a successful forum, Jason!
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also where we will see if any particular moderator is trying to disturb/misguide other mods/members here or trying to create negative enviroment in the community or trying to convert this discussion platform into a battlefield. If required, we will either request them to take up member status again or in extreme case ban them if required. |
And who is trying to turn this into a battlefield? We are trying to tell you things. You are not listening to them. You actually made me fight to get something done about a psychopath that resorted to making open and specific threats against people, both in this forum and elsewhere. WHY? What possible effect do you think that your refusal to take proper action would have, Jason?
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I have stated the reason, not one but many a times as to why we can't give permanent IP ban unless they are spam bots. |
Jason, you allowed that person to be named a debt samaritan AFTER she began attacking people all over the forum. We all expressed our concerns to you--and THIS is what you said in reply. Clearly you need to have your memory refreshed on this one:
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread88261-1.html
In that thread, she went off the deep end no matter what anyone said to her or how they said it. That's November 2010 Two months later....
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread94583.html
She was made a debt samaritan....???
She did not have much to offer anyone, and when she was not going off threatening people, she was posting her own agenda to take down a judge that she claimed she was wronged by. That is not now, nor has it ever been debt samaritan material. And when we all told you that we disagreed with your choice, you defended it. You said:
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All that we can say is that she has improved a lot since she first came here to post in the forums. Both moderators and members should build a climate of mutual respect and confidence so that all can participate in an open forum like ours. |
Mind you, at the time that this was happening, she was still routinely violating the TOS here. We even pointed this out to you, and she was still allowed to remain a debt samaritan. It took me a month of fighting to get something done about her because she resorted to threats and attacks that even broke laws. It was like we had to convince you to take action against someone who completely and routinely violated the TOS. She never should have been made a debt sam in the first place. We tried to tell you this, and we showed you why. You ignored us. It did not end well.
Ultimately, you posted that you did permanently ban her, so apparently you can actually do that....even though now, youre saying you cannot.
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so out of 75 Samratians you have issues with only 2 selection. Good to know again. Both Anna & Gretchen had their versions too. |
wow, so this is your thought process? I mentioned two specifically, that does not mean that I agree with all the others, and it isnt even about that in the first place. And yes, I'm quite certain that they have "their versions" too--but we already posted and covered their versions. They were found to be in the wrong and I was found not to be. So just because "they had their version" that does not in any way excuse their behavior, or justify your lack of action. I locked a thread and that thread was still perfectly visible to everyone--and I got attacked because I supposedly deleted her posts when I did no such thing. I corrected politely as you asked us to do. I got my head ripped off for it and threats made against me and my family--no kidding! And you made excuses as to why she should be a debt sam during this time. Dont tell me about "their version"--in gretchen's case her local police had to be notified about "her version"!
If you want us to believe that you actually support us, you cannot handle things the way you handled that. And to make justifications for it now?? That's simply not acceptable! You really messed up on that deal, would it really kill you to own up?
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We have enough work already.. |
Apparently not, if you have time to try to micromanage your moderators. Also, if this forum utilized its moderators in a way that you did not have all the moderation tasks solely on your plate, like other forums do, then you would not be so busy.
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Just curious, do they give points for moderation too? |
You think that giving moderation points excuses these things? Are you kidding me? As far as I am concerned, I would rather be able to do a moderator's job here for real, get real support and backup, and not have the points. You give us points and say it is a thank-you for the hard work we put in, and then you dangle the points in front of us like this now? What possible good could come from you turning a "thank-you" into some kind of slap in the face like this? You're tying our hands, Jason. Youre making it difficult for us to moderate the forum. You have NEVER had a problem with me deleting people's posts--and you know it. If you have that issue with other moderators, then you should address it between you and them. But there are mods here, like me, that do not delete such posts. And yet, by treating all of us as if we are doing the same things, you hamper our abilities to moderate! We are all supposed to be grown adults--would YOU like it if you were hampered because of something that another person does?
I agreed to be a moderator when there was no points system for it. The points are not why we chose to accept the positions, Jason. And if you are going to use the points system to justify tying our hands, then stop giving me points and allow me to moderate like we should.
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If so, are you allowed to delete welcome notes and get away being even asked by site admin (who remain busy posting) why such post are being deleted..then I have lots of suggestions for them. |
Do me a favor--show me three examples of me deleting those welcome posts. Truthfully I will be shocked if you can find even one. From the moment you said do not delete them, I have not deleted them. It is that simple. You are trying to use blanket methods to deal with different people who do not all do the things your blanket covers. How in the world can you think that this is an effective way to handle this?
Mods, Apart from listening to your observation as issues with
Mods,
Apart from listening to your observation as issues with blocking IP of spammer/solicitor here are some of your suggestions that we didn't ignore as well..
We implemented the moderators panel where 80-85% of spams go in the spam filter thereby preventing those spams become visible in the forums.
We installed the captcha feature / image verification for user based on your observations to reduce spams in forums
Implemented voting system so that OP don't get to read wrong info first or OP knows a post value based on positive/negative votes
FYI, we are presently working on developing moderation /spam filter section in Social Answer too just like we developed it in our forums.
We are also thinking of appointing few members to delete spams in our site
As far as making registration compulsory..
we made registration compulsory here once before but we observed two things ..
1) members who are novice, find it hard to cope with the login process
2) members don't want to enter personal info like names/emails while registering
so what do we do? We reverted back to allowing unregistered posters again with the intention to serve more queries from members.
As far as email answer notification for unregistered member is concerned we have still have not found a way how unregistered members will get notification. (because here unregistered members don't need to provide email address) So how do we notify them.
Any suggestion as to how to notify unregistered member in such a scenario from you will be appreciated
Considering the time you spent for moderation work we added moderation points system along with post points. Again they were your suggestion
Note : We will be shifting to a new platform very soon. We will try to implement some of the suggestions that were made earlier in the new platform, since we had technical limitations in the old one. It should be live in a week.
I have just mentioned few highlights (above) I'm sure if you check carefully you will find many such suggestions/observations which we took care of.
Quote:
And who is trying to turn this into a battlefield? |
Please don't talk about one or two exception (gretchen,marie etc) all the time (we have to deal with so many members day in day out) btw sky please don't engage in verbal attack first with members with whom you have issues and then come here to tell me to take action when things get out of your control.
Let me know first (the time you are warning a member). And I have repeatedly told you to keep me (first message) in the loop mail/pm whenever you deal with such issues. But then you always.. have to ignore request/oppose policy decision (whom should we allow to add links etc),fight with members/mods as if its a battlefield. We received complaints about your assaults on them too. So pleeeasssse..
You never acknowledge the actions that we take on our part in banning members/solicitors or sending warnings mails/pms based on mod feedback. If one goes through the thread in this mod forum itself one will know what I'm talking about.
FYI recently stephenebr had issues with SL. We not only sent mails warning her but banned her too. We can only request you to come out of the issues that you had with one/two particular member and repeatedly use them as examples to incite other mods here.
And no one is talking about throwing mods away from this forums. Sky, please stop using words to incite others here. Yes I repeat, please stop it now. As a open forum, we will have lots of issues to discuss here.. we will have differences.. Even, we had differences before (I feel there is nothing wrong with that) but very few had come here with the intention to incite other mods here. I have always tried to be lenient with you guys but considering the recent complaints we feel that such a thread was necessary to show how your reputation as a moderator of this site can get affected when others start doing negative publicity. (about you as well about our site) And we don't want it to happen. Please, take these observations in the right spirit. We want to make you aware of the complaints that are coming to us. We are NOT accusing anyone here but only pointing few things that you may not be noticing.
Please check for yourself what a particular member (who joined way back in 2006) said about debtconsolidationcare and moderator in his site/blog. Since snapshots are unreadable I'm mentioning the site name. (Please check last section of the site - http://lessismore.atspace.com/ )
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P.S. Back when I was under my own debt-servicing plan, I had an forum account at debtconsolidationcare.com. And, I posted my website address there on many occasions without any complaint from forum moderators. However, since my personal debt situation had been solved by a Chapter 13 filing, and after posting to different threads of my initial experiences, I decided to take a powder on forum posting and quit the forum. Recently, I re-joined the forum. And the only difference between then and now is that my opinions on debt servicing plans have changed considerably. Obviously, their site moderators have seen what's here - and they've decided to lock me out. My first post to their forum was locked and my website address deleted from the message. And at the bottom of this message was this curt retort: guess what links to sites that are not approved by the admins is considered soliciting,and not only your former link but this one qualifies.get lost!!!!!!!!!! paulmergel I then posted a 2nd message, this time without the website address. Minutes after posting it, it disappeared from their forum. But later it reappeared - with one interesting feature added to my account. I'm allowed to log on to my account. But as soon as I switch over to a forum area to make a post, I'm automatically logged out. In short, I can no longer post to the forum. And now, hehe, the disappearing/reappearing post has disappeared again. Gee, they must really not like what I have to say about debt servicing plans (grin). Oh, well. This site has been up since 2005 ... and it will probably still be up years from now. And it never has been nor will it ever be a website that "solicits" anything - except perhaps common sense. Regards, LessIsMore |
Now you tell me if this good for our forums?? Like I said we don't want others pointing fingers at our moderators or giving negative feedback about us in other sites. So, my ONLY intention is to make you aware of what can happen or what has happened or what is happening with posts like "Thanks a lot for sharing this information with us." or "Visit this thread from time to time. Some forum members will surely share their experiences."
I repeat please take these observations in the right spirit. You will have your observations, your versions, your grievance and so on..but this is what this forum is about. Right? I would request you to look at it in a positive way .. posts that were deleted which could have been kept (shown example), use of language when having issues with a particular member or someone who could have contributed later,dealing with nonsense posters and the proper channel to deal with such issues. Make sure when you send any warning mails, we are in the loop so that we too know about particular issues at the time it is taking place. Don't be very rude in your warning just mention your observation. A rude approach generally backfires as they get a chance to question Mod attitude here. If things don't work we will take care of the issue. Again these are just observations..
just a reminder.. (note : as you will know in most of the cases I had sent a pm before to respective Mods before showing these examples here ..)
when we tell OG to give a reply so that we can reply back to the mailer on her behalf (who accused her not to have the required knowledge) it's for the good of our forums
when we tell SL not to delete posts that can be kept, it's for the good of our forums. Again not talking of wrong info but general answers which I showed as examples.
when we tell Paul to be selective in using words while asking member so that others don't give negative comments in their sites/blogs,it's for the good of our forums.
Lets work together. And yes..beware of provocations and incitement.
Quote:Mods, Apart from listening to your observation as issues
Quote:
Mods, Apart from listening to your observation as issues with blocking IP of spammer/solicitor here are some of your suggestions that we didn't ignore as well.. We implemented the moderators panel where 80-85% of spams go in the spam filter thereby preventing those spams become visible in the forums. We installed the captcha feature / image verification for user based on your observations to reduce spams in forums Implemented voting system so that OP don't get to read wrong info first or OP knows a post value based on positive/negative votes |
The captcha system sucks, Jason, and I am not the only mod to tell you that. There is no legitimate reason why people who are registered should have to sign in, and then have to verify to make every single post they make. It targets everyone, when everyone is not the problem. We do not have these spam attacks from registered users--in nearly every case I have seen it comes from unregistered people. You are painting with way too broad a brush--and it doesnt even work anyways because we still get spam! And the voting system is something that several of us spoke against because anyone can vote--if you have no control over who votes, you have no control over what the voter knows and what they are basing their vote on. A debt collector under that system could conceivably come in here and vote for all the wrong answers. Not a very effective way to do things, if you ask me. And when you did ask, I do recall that this was brought up. And ignored.
Quote:
As far as making registration compulsory.. we made registration compulsory here once before but we observed two things .. 1) members who are novice, find it hard to cope with the login process 2) members don't want to enter personal info like names/emails while registerin |
I do not believe that for a second. There are forums today for everything from debt collection, to car clubs for every make and model, to coupon clubs to book clubs etc etc etc etc. These same people have facebook accounts where they have to register--do they refrain from getting on facebook because they dont want to have to register or input an email address?
I belong to several forums, some of which require registering. I have not seen any negative effect of that requirement. People are looking for information--there's nothing at all wrong with requiring them to invest a little information to get it. And your comment about how they "find it hard to cope with the log-in process"?? Really? We are in the computer age, Jason. People have to log in to damn near everything on the net in one form or another. We are not talking about something that people do not do a dozen times every single day--they log in each day to check their email, and our login is not any more complicated than that.
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so what do we do? We reverted back to allowing unregistered posters again with the intention to serve more queries from members. As far as email answer notification for unregistered member is concerned we have still have not found a way how unregistered members will get notification. (because here unregistered members don't need to provide email address) So how do we notify them. |
I am one of the people that favored requiring registration myself, so I cannot help you on this. Just another example of how I was ignored, Jason. And I know I am not the only one to bring up these concerns.
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Considering the time you spent for moderation work we added moderation points system along with post points. Again they were your suggestion |
Jason, with all respect to you, that is simply a lie. It was not our suggestion--and here is proof:
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=906730&postcount=17
That is the post in which you announced the idea and said that you wanted to reward us for our hard work. That was the first that we heard about it.
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Ask yourself first. |
Jason, I've not done any such thing. I speak my thoughts in my post. I have the same right to voice my concerns as everyone else, and where other mods have told you they are done, I keep trying to communicate with you! And I do not at all appreciate this comment from you.
You do not know me. If I wanted to turn this place into a battlefield, trust me I would have. Clearly that isnt the case.
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Please don't talk about one or two exception (gretchen,marie etc) all the time (we have to deal with so many members day in day out) |
I can only speak of my personal experiences, right? So why wouldnt I talk about my dealings? You do not have any place telling me not to talk about what I have experienced here! I am SUPPOSED to be able to talk about what I have seen on this forum....just like everyone else is! And when I have an experience that does not go right, I am SUPPOSED to be able to refer to it.
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btw sky please don't engage in verbal attack first with members with whom you have issues and then come here to tell me to take action when things get out of your control. |
Are you kidding me?? I already posted the whole gretchen ordeal....and that was not at all what took place. And you know it! I was polite to her. I was attacked for it. I continued to be polite to her. She continued to attack. There were other mods, other members, EVEN A GUEST that pointed out to gretchen that I did not in any way attack her. And if you paid any attention to the mariemegge issue you would know it was the same way with her. I politely corrected her post in the open, as you requested we do. She continued to insist that her info was correct. Another moderator was in that thread and reiterated what I said. She continued to insist. She then took to PMing me to bitch about being corrected. She is also one who tried to sneak in under the radar--she was initially caught more than once trying to solicit business. She had to be told more than once to knock that off.
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Let me know first (the time you are warning a member). And I have repeatedly told you to keep me (first message) in the loop mail/pm whenever you deal with such issues. But then you always.. have to ignore request/oppose policy decision (whom should we allow to add links etc),fight with members/mods as if its a battlefield. We received complaints about your assaults on them too. So pleeeasssse.. |
Thats funny--the only times I have heard of any complaints is when the person was acting outside the TOS and was already getting combative. In each of those cases, you ended up disciplining that other person in some form, so perhaps I am not the problem child youre trying to paint me as.....
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You never acknowledge the actions that we take on our part in banning members/solicitors or sending warnings mails/pms based on mod feedback. If one goes through the thread in this mod forum itself one will know what I'm talking about. |
AGAIN, Jason, I can only comment on what I KNOW ABOUT. I cannot comment on what you do if another mod complains to you about someone. And now youre telling me I am not allowed to speak of my own experiences???
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We can only request you to come out of the issues that you had with one/two particular member and repeatedly use them as examples to incite other mods here. |
OK, now you are WAY out of line.
First, I spoke of MY EXPERIENCES dealing with you in this fashion. You give me one good legitimate reason why that is such a problem for you that I brought those up.
Second, I did not incite anyone. I am speaking directly to YOU, am I not. I am not talking about you behind your back or addressing you to other moderators--I am speaking directly to you. THAT IS NOT INCITING OTHER MODS. you are WAY out of line and I do not deserve to be accused of something like that.
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And no one is talking about throwing mods away from this forums. Sky, please stop using words to incite others here. Yes I repeat, please stop it now. |
Really? No one is talking about getting rid of any moderators?? So, you did not post this comment in this thread??
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originally posted by you If required, we will either request them to take up member status again or in extreme case ban them if required. |
You have got to be kidding! You bring on a moderator after being here one month, which goes completely against what you yourself have told us is the policy, and you did it at the same time that several of the mods told you they were taking a strike. We are not stupid, Jason!
[QUOTE]
Even, we had differences before (I feel there is nothing wrong with that) but very few had come here with the intention to incite other mods here. I have always tried to be lenient with you guys but considering the recent complaints we feel that such a thread was necessary to show how your reputation as a moderator of this site can get affected when others start doing negative publicity.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree! And at the same time, you use examples of people complaining about other moderators to me. I am not deleting people's posts, as you asked. You have not indicated to me that you have received even one such complaint about me. Yet you are lecturing the hell out of me and using those complaints as examples. I challenged you to provide examples of me doing those things, you could not provide any. So again, what is your problem?
[QUOTE]We want to make you aware of the complaints that are coming to us. We are NOT accusing anyone here but only pointing few things that you may not be noticing.[/QUOTE]
you did all of this in a thread titled "mods need to follow the rules too". This title says to us that you are saying we do not follow the rules. But you keep claiming you are not accusing anyone here?? My point, Jason, was never to say that you should not bring these things to our attention--my point was that you did it in a bad way. You conveyed a message that was improper and premature with the way you did this. THAT is my point. I never said not to make people aware! But you could have, and should have, handled that better.
And there is nothing wrong with you realizing and admitting that!
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Please check for yourself what a particular member (who joined way back in 2006) said about debtconsolidationcare and moderator in his site/blog. |
yes, and again, read what I just wrote. I have no problem with you bringing complaints to us. I have a problem with the WAY you do it, and then you claim you were not accusing anyone. The way you posted was very much done in an accusing manner! All of the mods here that posted to you about it even agreed--so lets not pretend that this is some problem that I have. You are in a room full of people, and the only one who doesnt see the nature of how you posted that is you. Think about that for a minute.
[QUOTE]
when we tell OG to give a reply so that we can reply back to the mailer on her behalf (who accused her not to have the required knowledge) it's for the good of our forums
when we tell SL not to delete posts that can be kept, it's for the good of our forums. Again not talking of wrong info but general answers which I showed as examples.
when we tell Paul to be selective in using words while asking member so that others don't give negative comments in their sites/blogs,it's for the good of our forums.[/QUOTE]
When mods point out things that you have done wrong and offer suggestions to make it work better, ITS FOR THE GOOD OF THE FORUM THAT YOU CAN OWN UP AND WORK IN THE SAME MANNER TO IMPROVE THINGS. BUT YOU DO NOT DO THIS.
Instead, you accuse me of "inciting" people. Let's get something straight here--your moderators did not, and do not, need to be incited. The "24 hour strike"? I did not cause that. I did not message anyone and ask that they join in or anything of the sort. I did not even learn about it until after those folks made their decision. I was evacuated from a hurricane at the time. I do not see that me expecting you to be honest is "inciting". I'm quite sorry that you would rather falsely attack me with such an accusation than own up to your side of these disagreements.
Here's an FYI for you--I have been posting for the good of the forum this whole time. If you look, you will see where I have spoken in a mod thread in disagreement of a moderator and in support of your rules "for the good of the forum". I am NOWHERE CLOSE TO INCITING ANYONE. And I am not going to sit here and tolerate being accused of it.
At the least, you owe an apology for that crap. I work ABOVE AND BEYOND for the good of this forum. I do not deserve to be falsely accused like this, and DEFINITELY not by you. You want me to stop talking about gretchen? Simple--stop trying to distance yourself from where you went wrong in handling them. BE HONEST. That is ALL I asked for. That does not IN ANY WAY equal inciting....if you think it does, then you are not the right person to be in your position. I CERTAINLY would not be defending your rules in other threads at the same time, Jason, if I were "inciting other mods".
Quote:Considering the time you spent for moderation work we adde
Quote:
Considering the time you spent for moderation work we added moderation points system along with post points. Again they were your suggestion |
Maybe you are not aware but mods had complained to us earlier about the time they spend for moderating and whether we could increase the points from the present structure. In order to reward their effort we introduced this system. Should we revert back to the old system
Quote:
We do not have these spam attacks from registered users--in nearly every case I have seen it comes from unregistered people |
In cases like Marie and others if we will find any Mod bypassing us (if you get it right this time.. I mean your first pm/mail etc) and assaulting members (counter response from members), our response (unlike others cases where we take immediate action/back mods based on Mod feedback either by warning members or banning users) will be slow. We will need to go into all details of complaints from respective member so that we are not accused of encouraging rude Mods here. We will keep it as an example to show new mods where if you assault members in the name of warning/correction without keeping us in the loop (your mails/messages) and if things go out of your control, you should not expect immediate action or blind support. Like I said we will need time to go into details of mails and other complaints too.
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You do not know me. |
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And at the same time, you use examples of people complaining about other moderators to me. I am not deleting people's posts, as you asked. |
Again ,I showed examples of posts that were deleted (again not wrong answers, but the general ones) which we could have kept. I have also mentioned to particular Mods the kind (acknowledgement/general) of post (which do not fall under false info) that they deleted to show example (snapshots and quotes). Mods who deleted such posts know what I mean. And Where and when did I say you deleted posts or complained about other mods to you? Again part of incitement tactics? Reminder was for every body .. don't assume.. don't guess. I have asked you once before also not to take issues personally here.
Quote:from Jason Maybe you are not aware but mods had complained
Quote:
from Jason Maybe you are not aware but mods had complained to us earlier about the time they spend for moderating and whether we could increase the points from the present structure. In order to reward their effort we introduced this system. Should we revert back to the old system |
Like I said, be real. If everyone preferred the points, no one would still be complaining about the spam, dont you think?
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from Jason For better case studies ask soalpady, paulmergel, OG (they will paint better) who ACTUALLY spend lots of time in deleting those posts from spams bots both from registered and unregistered users rather than creating fuss with mod points. |
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from Jason Moreover we are presenlty very busy with shifting our data/file to new platform. We hardly have time to debate with you regarding baseless comments |
PAULMERGEL:
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=913152&postcount=3
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posted by Paul this is what you get when you don't make registering a requirement.idiotic unregistered stupidity. |
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=906153&postcount=1
[QUOTE]posted by Soaplady
I am sorry...I am so fed up with the spam in social misfits forum and this one. I deleted a crap load this morning, went out for a couple of hours and a shitload of unregistered "guests" have posted again. Please, please, I and the other moderators implore you, put an end to unregistered guests from posting in either of these forums. Instead of wasting time asking us for testimonials, fix the forum. No other forum allows you to post willy nilly unregistered....the screen name allows them to remain annoymous and should help us to cut down/eliminate the spammers. None of the reputable credit forums allows unregistered people to post...it is time for debt consolidation care to get with the program!!![/QUOTE]THESE ARE THEIR OWN WORDS, JASON. THEY CLEARLY AGREE WITH WHAT I HAVE TOLD YOU. And instead of simply being honest, you tell me that my comments are "baseless"?? Where in the world do you think I got the idea that these other mods feel the same way?? FROM THEM!! There's your "better case studies", Jason! The only thing missing is you listening to them!
How much more can you possibly ignore the obvious?
[QUOTE]from Jason
In cases like Marie and others if we will find any Mod bypassing us (if you get it right this time.. I mean your first pm/mail etc) and assaulting members (counter response from members), our response (unlike others cases where we take immediate action/back mods based on Mod feedback either by warning members or banning users) will be slow. We will need to go into all details of complaints from respective member so that we are not accused of encouraging rude Mods here. We will keep it as an example to show new mods where if you assault members in the name of warning/correction without keeping us in the loop (your mails/messages) and if things go out of your control, you should not expect immediate action or blind support. Like I said we will need time to go into details of mails and other complaints too. [/QUOTE]If you look some posts back, you would have already seen that I specifically told you that I do not expect blind support. So what exactly is your point??
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from Jason New mods please note that you are not supposed to use such words when dealing with members so that we don't get complaints of Mod attitude here. (this is just an example based on skydvr's previous post) |
Jason, that comment was not made "to members". It was made to you. And these other mods that I am supposedly "inciting" have already left this thread in disgust. I am not "inciting" anything or anyone. I am simply trying to communicate with a guy that simply refuses to listen to his moderators. How can you tell me to refer to the other mods instead of making "baseless statements" when those mods have ALL posted the same exact things I am telling you now?
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from Jason Again ,I showed examples of posts that were deleted (again not wrong answers, but the general ones) which we could have kept. I have also mentioned to particular Mods the kind (acknowledgement/general) of post (which do not fall under false info) that they deleted to show example (snapshots and quotes). Mods who deleted such posts know what I mean. And Where and when did I say you deleted posts or complained about other mods to you? Again part of incitement tactics? Reminder was for every body .. don't assume.. don't guess. I have asked you once before also not to take issues personally here. |
I already am aware that some other mods have deleted posts. I NEVER claimed otherwise. I spoke to you about OTHER problems, and you keep ignoring my posts and pointing back to those other mods. I asked you specifically to show me where I had done this. You respond back with where SOMEONE ELSE had done it. I ask you to address your faulty handling of the issues I have brought to you--and you backpedal, make excuses, refuse to take responsibility, and then again shuffle back to what these other mods have done.
I KNOW that "this is for everyone". But again, I have just as much right as everyone else here to address MY CONCERNS. And you have flat out ignored them at every turn. WE KNOW THAT SOME OTHER MODS HAVE DELETED POSTS. I HAVE NEVER DENIED THIS IN ANY WAY. WE DO NOT NEED FURTHER EXAMPLES TO SHOW IT. I asked you to address the way you handled MY concerns, and you actually told me to stop bringing those up in here! You did wrong on those. And instead of owning up to that, you blast me with false accusations??
Jason, when I ask you about MY concerns, you are wrong to continue to point back to SOMEONE ELSE'S CONCERNS instead of answering.
And you tell me now to look for "better case studies"?? In both of the concerns I brought to you, those same other moderators were telling you the same exact things that I was--gretchen was rude to several other mods, attacked them for no good reason....and you pretend that I somehow invited her attacks upon me! Before I had ever had any problem with her, she had taken to attacking two other moderators in separate incidents--both of which were posted in the mod section.....you STILL chose to make her a debt sam, and when you did, EVERYONE COMPLAINED. Do I need to link the thread here to remind you?
WE ALL disagreed with you making her a sam here. WE ALL told you why. WE ALL had legitimate examples of her going off on people. You responded with something like "well, she has been doing better". And she had not been. You asked for examples of her not cleaning up her act and I immediately had them to show you.
But that must have just been me "inciting" her with "baseless comments", right??
Here's a great example of what I am referring to.
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http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=895196&postcount=24
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originally posted by aubrey Hi, guys. Been away for quite a while. Thought I'd check out what was happening on the site, and I find you're still dealing with the same problem of "bad" advice. What decision has been made? |
This is one of your moderators--an EXPERT and HOF member--that has "been away for quite a while". And look at the comment made....."still dealing with the same problem of bad advice". Do you think that just maybe our good posters like aubrey would NOT "be away for quite a while" if these issues would actually be handled? That was last November, by the way, and we are no closer to it being handled today than we were back then. Incidentally, aubrey made only one post after that--December 2011....and has not posted ever since. Do you think that maybe when long-standing members, and even mods, are telling you these things, that it is worth listening to? Here--if you do not want to take my word for it, then you can take aubrey's own word for it:
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=885748&postcount=3
[QUOTE]
originally posted by aubrey
I agree with you Paul about the generic posts. When I was on here a lot previously, I did a lot of research on various states' rules and gave them that info or link - I never told them to go look it up. When you're in financial distress and go to someone for help, that's what you expect. Some people aren't good at finding what they need on the web.
Between the bland responses and the avalanche of spam along with family matters, I've shied away. [/QUOTE]
WHAT MORE PROOF COULD YOU POSSIBLY NEED?? Aubrey told you in August of last year that THESE are the reasons for having "shied away"!!! PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS! This is not from just me--this is ALL OF THE MODS! You think that mod points are going to change that? We have actually LOST GOOD MEMBERS for these reasons, and you are so busy pretending that this is just me trying to "incite"?
Note, I posted a very doable option in that thread--why not create a forum bot to post welcome posts in new threads that have not received responses for a certain amount of time? Other mods thought it was a good idea. You said nothing about it. Lots of forums use bots that actually post advertising posts for forum sponsors at certain preset intervals so I know it could be done. I know that particularly in the vB format, among others, I have seen this.
Bottom line, Jason, is that you need to pay attention to what the mods are telling you. You have claimed I was inciting. Clearly that isnt the case--they all acted without me and before I even knew what was going on here. you claimed that my comments were "baseless", when in fact the mods you said I should look to have been telling you the exact same as I have this whole time. You tried to blame the actions of those like gretchen on my posts to her, and I have proven this to be false. I am just trying to get you to understand that the way you have handled things with us has left these problems. And you cannot even admit to the way you have handled them! Now, dont you think it would be more productive to actually be honest about this stuff?? I am still here, where others have said "I give up", "I'm done"....still trying to communicate with you. STILL TRYING TO GET PROGRESS MADE. And for that, you slam me dishonestly? With actions like that, Jason, you do not need anyone to "incite" your mods--you are driving them away all by yourself!
last time i will post on this site.
jason the reason i have left is because of this thread,and the jist of it.it has nothing to do with others and everything to do with your attitude towards not only the mods,but the site as a whole.a couple of points.
1)pointless posts...nuff said.
2)the demise of this site(yes demise)started with social/shithead answers.a useless thing that you are turning this forum into.
3)the fact that you want to devalue the mods here.proof?just the fact that this is still ongiong,and all you offer are fillibusters like mrconsumerprotection.
i know you morphed into a lazyass,but don't get deluded too.i am gone because of you,and you alone.chew on that,or is that another useless/pointless post.buh-bye.
I'm having to repeat same things over and over again here..
I repeat - I have so far never encouraged wrong answers here but what I have said (repeatedly) is whenever you delete incorrect post either give a reply so that the thread don't remain unanswered (as per our policy we don't want unanswered threads) and IF any member/poster ask about their deleted posts or want to know the correct/reason for deletion ( via pm/mail/post) I am just asking you to reply to them so that they know why their posts were deleted. And I showed few examples of posts that were deleted which could have been kept. That's all what I asked.
So basically if try to make you aware about things that we are noticing which is not good for our mods as well as for our site, one will talk of leaving instead of becoming cautious so that such things don't happen again.. individual thought process varies..but when I showed few such examples (which we feel was necessary) I also asked you all to take these in the right spirit and look at it in a positive way. We don't want you to give others a chance to point fingers at us or want others to do negative publicity about our site.mods outside.
We feel it would be better if welcome posts are made by community members themselves instead of bots, as they look more human.
Regarding spam block, we had implemented features based on mods observation (examples of spam filter section,captcha features etc shown before) as well so don't just bluntly say we have not taken ANY steps.. but yes as far as making registration compulsory we did it ONLY once because as per our site policy we want to allow/serve more members so that those who are not very familiar with all login process can be accommodated here. (FYI we did get mails - especially from aged/novice people)
When we made registration compulsory once to check the spam rate/pattern, but we found that the spams were still coming (at reduced rates) and spam bots still managed to hack our security process that time too. I even mentioned it in one of my previous post. Also we had implemented a system once - if any one added links in their post (since we found many spam post with links then) our system sent all such posts in the moderation panel. They were live Only after approval from moderators. But, after few days we had to remove them as well since we found many members complaining about their genuine post with links getting into spam filter section or new poster/member not finding their post in forums (since their posts used to wait for moderation by moderators who were not available all the time) and when those posts were made live many posters were gone. Please don't say we have ignored all your suggestions. We tried from our end to minimise spams too. But when we take a particular decision, we need to see what problem others will face also because of our decision. As regard to allowing unregistered posters its was our site policy till date. We need to take note of every one's concern as well.
We have got some interesting new suggestions (from KS and Waffles apart from SL's previous ones) as far as making registration compulsory or finding ways to check unregistered posts is concerned so that we can keep a balance between our policy to serve more members/posters and at the same time restricting unregistered posters. We will try out after we shift to the new platform. But for the moment we are busy working on transferring files/data from old platform, testing in new platform in beta which are required before going live. Because once we are live we will again face new problems -- remember the last time we shifted? we had so many issues with login, some section not visible, features not working,problem with rights and permission and so on..and we look forward to your feedback again to sort out those issues step by step .. like we did it last time.
Just an update - In the month of May'12'.. our site page rank increased from PR5 to PR6. We are growing..
[QUOTE]I repeat - I have so far never encouraged wrong answers
[QUOTE]I repeat - I have so far never encouraged wrong answers here but what I have said (repeatedly) is whenever you delete incorrect post either give a reply so that the thread don't remain unanswered (as per our policy we don't want unanswered threads) and IF any member/poster ask about their deleted posts or want to know the correct/reason for deletion ( via pm/mail/post) I am just asking you to reply to them so that they know why their posts were deleted. And I showed few examples of posts that were deleted which could have been kept. That's all what I asked.[/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with the concerns I brought up to you? Why are you so unwilling to address what I said? You are well versed in discussing what does not even need to be discussed any further, and when I bring MY concerns up, you refuse to discuss how you handled them poorly? You bring things up and expect us to go along with it--but we cannot bring things up to you in the same fashion?
Accountability is a two way street, Jason, again.....and this isnt working the way you are trying to do it.
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So basically if try to make you aware about things that we are noticing which is not good for our mods as well as for our site, one will talk of leaving instead of becoming cautious so that such things don't happen again.. |
Perhaps if you were willing to discuss all of the issues with the same eagerness, instead of trying so hard to ignore the ones that have your name on them, people might see this differently?
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individual thought process varies..but when I showed few such examples (which we feel was necessary) I also asked you all to take these in the right spirit and look at it in a positive way. We don't want you to give others a chance to point fingers at us or want others to do negative publicity about our site.mods outside. |
I did exactly what you asked. I agreed with the point so much that I posted recently in a thread to SL about how we cannot delete those posts because they serve more than one purpose. And yet, at the same time, you cannot own up to any of the things that are presented to you. Think about that for a minute, and imagine what it causes in the way of "negative publicity about our site mods"....when a super moderator acts in such a manner, how do you think it reflects upon the forum as a whole, Jason?
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We feel it would be better if welcome posts are made by community members themselves instead of bots, as they look more human. |
Have you read some of these posts, Jason? They seem more inhuman than a machine would! We have these folks posting things that do not even apply to the OP's situation!!! These do NOT look more human--they look brain dead! When someone posts a thread and says "I sent a validation letter, what should I do next?", and one of your rookies replies with "send them a validation letter", how does that help???
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Regarding spam block, we had implemented features based on mods observation (examples of spam filter section,captcha features etc shown before) as well so don't just bluntly say we have not taken ANY steps.. |
I have not said you did not take any steps. I do not see where anyone here has said you did not take any steps. Why even post this? You are unwilling to address what needs to be addressed, but instead, you post about things that are not even being said or done??
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but yes as far as making registration compulsory we did it ONLY once because as per our site policy we want to allow/serve more members so that those who are not very familiar with all login process can be accommodated here. (FYI we did get mails - especially from aged/novice people) |
Jason, here's the deal--if someone needs help, then OFFER THEM HELP. You took a measure that did indeed reduce spam, and some people needed help in the process. SO HELP THEM. You dont can the whole idea because some people needed some help with registering! Not only that, but these people have already had to register for things on the internet--email addresses, facebook, other forums, etc etc etc, so let's not pretend that registering is too hard for people to do. If someone needs help, then we should happily help them, but yo DONT get rid of something that works to cut down spam just because a few people need help with it.
This is the kind of thinking that makes us believe you do not care about this forum. As already pointed out to you, we see plenty of unregistered people registered on other forums, so it cannot be THAT hard. Did you ever stop and consider that maybe the complaints you received were from people who come here to cause trouble, so they do not want mandatory registering? They come here and lie about everything else, so that would not be a stretch.....
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When we made registration compulsory once to check the spam rate/pattern, but we found that the spams were still coming (at reduced rates) and spam bots still managed to hack our security process that time too. |
Did we ever say that it would 100% eliminate spam? No, we sure didnt. But it DID greatly reduce our spam. And again, heres another example of a thought process that does not work--you found that your security process was not working--so you get rid of something else to fix the problem? If your car blows an engine, do you put new tires on and hope that the engine is now fixed? The SECURITY PROCESS was lacking, so THAT should be what needs fixing. Dont get rid of required registration--fix what needs fixing so that it all works together! We had the lowest spam with compulsory registration, so clearly something was heading in the right direction......
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But when we take a particular decision, we need to see what problem others will face also because of our decision. |
Yes, and then you ADDRESS THE NEW PROBLEMS. You dont ignore the progress made and then go back to the system that you know will not work!
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As regard to allowing unregistered posters its was our site policy till date. We need to take note of every one's concern as well. |
You want to take note of concerns?? Then take note of this:
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180376&highlight=cash+call
This is one of your unregistered posters--claims to work for Cash Call and came here to bash our members. Read his comments:
[QUOTE]originally posted by unregistered cash call employee
PAY YOUR BILLS!
Look i am serious. I work at cashcall and am in contact with numerous payday companies which have traced to this site templates from people getting out of their loans this isn't right. Your moderator expert waffle gave out an executives email who's being spammed by deadbeat idiots cause of your site. You help people who take loana out and sign agreements escape from them due to laws that are outdated. So basically you help people get free money with your scam fraud operation get out of PAYING THE BILL. You sign a loan you pay it bszk what you signed who gives a damn what the law of your state is and if you can escape from it. We run a necessary operator for people who need monEy and we expect their end of the deal made and your site helps them escape that do you are aiding FRAUD. We are gonna start prosecuting those who use your advise so people here thinking of DEFRAUDING us think twice you will end up in a CELL. And the retarded who made no registration we will keep coming back you can't ban us since we can post without accounts GOOD LUCK FRAUDSTERS STOP SCAMMING LEGIT COMPANYS[/QUOTE]
What does THAT tell you, Jason, about keeping the unregistered capability? You dont think these people realize that they can keep coming back like this? How much more obvious does it need to be?
[QUOTE]
Just an update - In the month of May'12'.. our site page rank increased from PR5 to PR6. We are growing.. [/QUOTE]
As is every other forum on the internet that deals with debt collection issues. That is a sign of the times we are in, not a sign of how well this forum is working. But your problems are growing too--and that is not a sign of success.
Also, what criteria is used for those rankings? Is it number of posts? because if it has anything to do with number of posts, or number of visits, then you are "GROWING" for the wrong reasons. At the end of April we were told that you were going to remove the registration requirement--and for the whole month of May we were literally flooded with spam. Consider this, please, when you tell us how you are growing--it may not be what you think it is.
FYI We have blocked the IP of the concerned poster that you have
FYI We have blocked the IP of the concerned poster that you have mentioned(from our end). Mods generally bring up issues like these by starting a thread - either asking us to ban/send warnings or if there is any doubt, ask us for opinion. We do the needful and each time once its done, we usually update the thread.
And as far as unregistered posts are concerned I have already stated our site policy, our tech limitations and also the plan of action about suggestions from other mods. I have also explained the type of posts which we should keep (Again not talking of wrong answers here).
In spite of all that you keep on using aggressive tones/approach here ... not to forget your attitude with old mod who wants to return here as well as member who complains to us about your assault.
Enough is Enough. This is your first warning. Next time if we find you creating negative environment in the community we will be forced to take necessary action.
Quote:In spite of all that you keep on using aggressive tones/ap
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In spite of all that you keep on using aggressive tones/approach here ... not to forget your attitude with old mod who wants to return here as well as member who complains to us about your assault. Enough is Enough. This is your first warning. Next time if we find you creating negative environment in the community we will be forced to take necessary action. |
To whom was this directed?
My thoughts exactly, OG.... He says that 'mods generally bring
My thoughts exactly, OG....
He says that 'mods generally bring up issues like these by starting a thread..." as if to complain about something I said. But I did start a thread back when this happened, so I am not at all certain what he's complaining about there.
And I am not at all sure what old mod he is talking about because I cannot recall ever having an issue with a mod here....I could be wrong but nothing comes to mind. But in either event, when other mods are currently posting that they favor required registration, he thanks them for their helpful suggestions, and when I say I am in favor of the same thing, I apparently get warned for it and lectured about tech limitations, etc.
it almost sounds like he's talking to two people at once....Jason, would it be asking too much for you to clarify this?
Jason, it is not my intention to go to war with you. It is, however, my intention to tell you that this situation will not work the way it is being handled. That is not meant to be a personal shot at you--but you are asking for accountability from us without allowing yourself to be held to the same. If this is supposed to be a team effort, then it should be addressed that way from all sides. Anything less, and it doesnt function properly. Are you saying that you disagree with that? Because your actions show that you disagree with it. If you agree, then I am all for working together. If you disagree, then I will save you the trouble here and now, and you can remove me from the moderation team. When I became a mod here, everyone worked together. We had no need for "welcome posts" and such because people were here, posting regularly. They participated. Lots of those people are no longer here, Jason--this is not a dig at you or anyone else, it is a fact. We need to figure out why we lost those quality people and if possible, try to ensure that we dont lose more quality people. No one benefits from a forum filled with newbies that do not have the experience, do you agree with that?
I know you have so much going on with the tech updates. If this needs to wait until that is all finished up to address, thats fine--but practically the whole mod team has been trying to tell you that we feel it needs to be addressed. If it needs to wait, then just let us know this at least. You have people here, myself included, that want to work together, but these issues do need to be addressed. I have no desire to see more quality people leave this place. Thats why I push like I do. Good people are leaving. And I even showed you an example of where the trouble makers even posted that they will keep coming back because we cannot ban an unregistered poster.
Yes sky, that was for you.We felt that some of your post tones w
Yes sky, that was for you.We felt that some of your post tones were harmful as they were creating a negative environment. We don't mind criticism but anyways..Having said that I have nothing personal against you too and I would like to see you contribute more in our forums in mod capacity. We will have issues, some will be taken care of instantly whereas some will take time to get solved. I have already replied that our tech members will be looking into all the suggestions as far as unregistered posts are concerned. Let us be live first. We will have various issues once we are live. After all the basic features/requirements are done our tech members will try out various options. But please first let us be live in the new platform. We know its a problem. We tried our best to implement some features that we felt would help us. We had to take into consideration our site policy too that of making posting simpler.
Its not entirely because of spams that some mods left for the time being. Since you mentioned aubrey as example (http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=828861&postcount=1) I would also request you to take a look at this thread also. http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/mod/thread110574.html
We would appreciate if you can help us out by giving list of other mods who have left just for spams in our forums. We will be contacting them once we manage to control spams in our site.
And if you go through the following urls you will find that Mods do have/had their own reasons also for taking temporary breaks..
goldenbast
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=791476&postcount=1
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=937402&postcount=1
Sassnlucy
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=210632&postcount=1
2nband
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=449243&postcount=1
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=409678&postcount=1
frogpatch
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/showpost.php?p=855112&postcount=1
If you go through the above posts from members you will find some are busy with their present job or business, some not keeping good health, some going through rough times. Some have other personal problems which they share with us via mail. Some come here again after few month's break. Having said that we even added new members too. Spam is an issue, no one is denying that but no forum can be 100% spam free. It is a fact that as a high ranking site in the major search engine with many keywords related to debt industry WE are a target.. not only from spam bots (both unregistered/registered) but also from pdls and collection agencies. The more popular your site is, the more trolls will try to get in. Had we not ranked in the search results perhaps our ordeal would have been less.
As far as banning is concerned, we generally avoid giving a permanent ban (we give temporary ban though) since blocking an IP will effect many unregistered posters/ registered members (as they will fall in that IP loop) who have genuine queries here. And I have told this reason before also.
As admin we do get lots of suggestions/complaints from all quarters. People have their own opinion/feedback which they think is the best.We need participation from all section. It's very difficult to satisfy all..Hope you'll understand. Yes lets work together.
Quote:Yes sky, that was for you.We felt that some of your post t
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Yes sky, that was for you.We felt that some of your post tones were harmful as they were creating a negative environment. We don't mind criticism but anyways..Having said that I have nothing personal against you too and I would like to see you contribute more in our forums in mod capacity. |
Then you should have come to me if you had complaints about me. You have come to me in this thread showing complaints about several other mods....why didnt you approach me with these complaints?
Another thing--it would be more respectful to approach such matters privately instead of posting complaints on one mod to other mods. I understand that you did in some cases send a PM first, but it should have stayed in PMs when you knew the mod in question. It really looks bad to air someone else's dirty laundry, so to speak. Just my two cents there.
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We will have issues, some will be taken care of instantly whereas some will take time to get solved. |
Thats reasonable and to be expected.
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I have already replied that our tech members will be looking into all the suggestions as far as unregistered posts are concerned. Let us be live first. We will have various issues once we are live. After all the basic features/requirements are done our tech members will try out various options. But please first let us be live in the new platform. We know its a problem. We tried our best to implement some features that we felt would help us. We had to take into consideration our site policy too that of making posting simpler. |
Fair enough.
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Its not entirely because of spams that some mods left for the time being. |
you will note that I did not only say that mods are leaving--I said that we have lost quality people and if this does not change we will continue to lose quality people. As for mods, Paul already left, and probably some others too from the sound of things in this thread. There's no denying that Paul provided a ton of quality work here and I personally feel that it was a disservice the way things were left there. Again, just my two cents.
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Since you mentioned aubrey as example (http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com...61&postcount=1) I would also request you to take a look at this thread also. http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com...ead110574.html |
Would you kindly refer back to what I originally posted on this? I already noted that aubrey had family/medical concerns, but the fact remains that aubrey herself expressed her own point of view regarding the spam and how it affected her thoughts on coming back. you cannot deny that or hide it behind the reason she originally took a break--one has to return from that break to come back, and she expressed her own personal views when she said this:
[QUOTE]originally posted by aubrey
Between the bland responses and the avalanche of spam along with family matters, I've shied away.[/QUOTE]
There's no denying her concerns, and it is not wise to ignore her concerns because there were other circumstances as well as the spam and generic posts. Like I said, Jason, that is her own take on how she feels--it is not your right, mine, or anyone else's to try to downplay that. She has the right to that. She expressed it here. And her medical situation does not at all make that statement go away. I'm just telling you a fact.
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We would appreciate if you can help us out by giving list of other mods who have left just for spams in our forums. We will be contacting them once we manage to control spams in our site. |
Jason, please, just read what I wrote already:
[QUOTE]originally posted by me
When I became a mod here, everyone worked together. We had no need for "welcome posts" and such because people were here, posting regularly. They participated. Lots of those people are no longer here, Jason--this is not a dig at you or anyone else, it is a fact. We need to figure out why we lost those quality people and if possible, try to ensure that we dont lose more quality people. No one benefits from a forum filled with newbies that do not have the experience, do you agree?[/QUOTE]
I did not say "we're losing all our mods". I said PEOPLE. As in members. posters. I can tell you this--and the other mods can back me up on this. I personally have helped dozens of people here. I have become sort of a go-to guy in dealing with debt collectors' illegal lawsuits and harassment. I have had lots of people PM me over the years and I have gone as far as to help people understand what they needed to put into motions and court filings so that they stood a chance against the debt collectors. I have since run into not one, not two, but several of those people on other forums. Many of them do not post here much at all, or even stopped altogether. Some of them have dropped in to read posts. I have gotten feedback more than once about how this place has really gone downhill....when people try to read a forum section and it's filled with spam that shows up faster than we can delete it, people lose interest in coming here. Yes, you have traffic--but traffic includes those spams. It includes the people that come here with bad intentions. I do not believe that you want that sort of traffic here. But there is no denying that people do not want to deal with all that nonsense when they can go to other debt collection forums, get similar help, without the mess.
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Having said that we even added new members too. |
I know--I am one of the people that has helped in this. I have helped a lot of newbies and I always encourage them to stay on, to learn more and to pass on what they have learned to others that need the help. Some of them have taken me up on the offer, like stick...others have not.
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Spam is an issue, no one is denying that but no forum can be 100% spam free. It is a fact that as a high ranking site in the major search engine with many keywords related to debt industry WE are a target.. not only from spam bots (both unregistered/registered) but also from pdls and collection agencies. The more popular your site is, the more trolls will try to get in. Had we not ranked in the search results perhaps our ordeal would have been less. |
Jason, no one expects this place to be spam free. I never made such a request. My request, as was everyone else's, was that you do not go back to allowing unregistered posters. However, you are telling me this whole time that the tech guys have told you why it is not possible to require registration. Well, it has to be possible, because we already were there. And when we were, it cut down big time on the spam. We all have told you this. I understand you are rolling out the new format. I get that. But it made no sense to pull the mandatory registration to begin with. Essentially, you told us "yes, it works, but we are going to get rid of it and see what happens". We now have seen what happens--spam all over the place again.
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As far as banning is concerned, we generally avoid giving a permanent ban (we give temporary ban though) since blocking an IP will effect many unregistered posters/ registered members (as they will fall in that IP loop) who have genuine queries here. And I have told this reason before also. |
Perhaps, then, there needs to be something new, a new way to address individual posters who go that far off the deep end. Specifically, gretchen is a good example. you cannot pin her actions on me "inciting" anything, even though you have already tried. Perhaps there needs to be a new direction for people like that.....I do not yet have a suggestion there, but maybe someone else does. I know that on one forum that I moderate, the admins and site owners have actually taken to reporting someone to law enforcement because of threats made, etc etc.