What's a "validation notice"?

Debt verification is mainly done with the creditors. You're right about this thing. On the other hand, debt validation can be done with the collection agencies only. What kind of 'vague documents' have you received?

Just ask them for proper debt validation and make sure you receive a copy of the signed contract with the original creditor.

I would like to see some precedent or decision (or even FDCPA rule) that says that a signed contract is required for proper validation. I keep up pretty close to these things and Im unaware of any such requirement, but I see it touted her a lot.

There is no specific definition of "validation" in the FDCPA. However, the burden of proof is on the collector if it goes to court and, without a signed contract, they have no real way to prove the debt is owed.

Here are some things to consider:

It's going to be very difficult, if not impossible for a collector to win a judgment unless they can prove in court (with documentation) the following:

1. That the collection company owns the debt/or has been assigned the debt.

2. Copy of the original signed loan agreement or credit card application or, at a minimum, some account statements from the original creditor.

If you really want to go for the throat, you can also start asking for proof of the balance requested such as: how was the balance calculated; what fees and interest were added to the balance and how did you calculate those fees, etc.?

See Fields v. Wilber Law Firm, Donald L. Wilber and Kenneth Wilber, USCA-02-C-0072, 7th Circuit Court, Sept 2004.

But there is a HUGE difference between billing statements and a signed contract. I have never been shown a signed contract in my dealings, but have often been shown billing statements (usually the charge off statement). I suppose it depends on the judge...