The PA Attorney General

Question - Unlicensed lenders or licensed lenders? Or both? If they said unlicensed lenders must follow PA laws, then that would follow with what the banking dept says. They are saying that only lenders licensed in another state can legally lend. I hate it when one "branch" of government is saying one thing and another "branch" says another . . . . It would be interesting to see what would happen if there was a lawsuit - Since the banking dept tells any business that they can follow their own laws???

Good job! You arae doing great! I'm glad you are getting the muscle of your AG's office involved!

And hell, whatever works, use to your advantage!

It's funny, I've called the AG's office in PA like 8 times in the last 7 months, and every time I've called I've gotten a different response to the same question . . . . I've been told to contact the banking dept for that info, been told to contact a private attorney, that the AG's office doesn't give legal advice, etc . . . . No offense to PA, but that state needs to make up it's mind! It would make things a whole lot easier for a whole lot of people!

Goudah I know your frustration. On a different note Tukki, do not waste your time with BIG. The only way to get anywhere with them is to ignore them and hang up everytime they call. When you pick up the phone and you hear that call center chatter in the background do not say hello. Just hang up. Eventually they will think the number is no good and give up.

Yeah, I still remember getting a 25 minute long voice mail of just chatter from Route 66 once! Um, duh?!? Can't they hang up a freaking phone! They didn't even leave a message, it was just the background chatter . . . .

Ha! No kidding goudah! The Banking Dept. told me exactly what you said, that licensed internet lenders are bound to the laws of the state in which they are licensed. The AG directly refuted that, saying that no matter if they are licensed (or especially if they are unlicensed) that by lending to PA residents they are willingly accepting PA's rate cap on small loans, and they must abide by that.

Thanks by the way...this has been a stressful week, but at least I know that I have control over my money. If I can get maybe 3 of these things marked PIF, along w/ the payment plan I set up with Advance America, I'd be really really pleased. My fingers are crossed!

That sounds like the Voice Mail from Hell.

Thanks frogpatch, that seems to be the general consensus with everybody on the forum. I figured if I send the letter, maybe by some stoke of luck I could get a good settlement offer and just make them go away. Oh well.

Goudah - I just realized that in my initial post I should have stated "Lenders not licensed in Pennsylvania" in lieu of "unlicensed lenders."

My apologies.

Yeah, that was what held me up. This is really great for you!

Did you talk to the AG's office about Advance America? I know they currently have a lawsuit going against them . . . .

That's great! I haven't even sent a letter to the ag yet.Let me ask my cashnet usa is pretty new but I have had around 5 in the last three years. Do you think they will take all the interest and add it all up to give me a smaller settlement?

WTG tukkitrocks79!! Thanks for the good news about PA! I've been really discouraged here lately and that really helps me and lifts my spirit again!!!!

thanks guys. cynthia, I have no idea what CashNetUSA is going to do. I keep reading all of these differing things about them on the forum, that they will have one person call you that's a complete jerk, and then have someone extremely nice call you - a good cop, bad cop game. It was really strange that they offered that up so quickly to me. My guess is that they have run into this before and PA laws held up, so they relented. Also, this is encouraging because supposedly CashNetUSA is one of the only really legit iPDL companies, fully licensed supposedly. If THEY know that PA law trumps their state, then the unlicensed / illegal ones should realize that even quicker!

Goudah - I did talk to them about Advance America, but didn't get any real response. Once I told the AG Rep that I had already set up a repayment plan, she pretty much moved right on to the next topic. So I didn't get anywhere with that particular payday loan. That's OK though, I have no hostility towards them. All of my dealings with them have been positive - expensive, but positive. If I have to pay ridiculous interest rates to somebody, I would rather it be them than any of these other companies.

I'm very confused. I thought payday lending was prohibited in PA.

"Prohibited" as it reads in the quote from the payday laws sites is kind of misleading. Payday lending is very very restricted within the state.

This was posted in another thread (if someone knows where this comes from, please give them credit for it. I have no idea what site this came from):


Check cashers are specifically prohibited from making payday loans under Check Cashing Licensing Act

Pennsylvania's laws regarding this subject are very confusing, and so many people are getting conflicting information from different state government bureaus.

It is very confusing, wow! I live in NY and it is also prohibited here, but I wonder if there is some "loophole" in our laws as well....

What paydayloaninfo.org does is just briefly "summarize" the laws for each state. There are only a couple states where payday loans are actually prohibited. The other states have interest rate caps that are low enough that most pdl's aren't going to bother. So legally a pdl could lend, but they would have to charge under the interest rate. So it's prohibitive for the pdl's because of the rate cap, but not actually illegal for pdl's to lend. Does that makes sense?

Laws applying to check cashers are just that - Laws that apply to check cashers. Most payday loan places are not check cashers anymore, so these laws don't apply to them.

The problem in general is that most states laws can't adequetly deal with these companies. Almost all the state's laws have some sort of gray area, and that's why the pdl's operate with so much freedom. Not one single pdl that has ever been sued by a state has ever admitted wrongdoing . . . . Most of the semi legit ones have lawyers telling them what is "safe" and what isn't . . . . . And most of the laws haven't been tested against internet companies. It's a huge gray area with internet bases businesses. Legally, there hasn't been a court case yet dealing with a loan company that ruled wether the business is "operating" in the consumers state or the businesses state. There have been similar cases involving other industries where the ruling was favorable to us (that the business was operating in the consumers state), but even that question isn't set in stone.

Think about it, would there be sooooo many internet payday loan companies running around if it was easy to prosecute and stop them and the laws were clearly against them? No, we would only find the ones like Route 66 that are located out of the country. They know that it isn't black and white, and they are explioting that to the fullest.

This is one of the reasons complaints are so vital and necessary. If you don't file a complaint, or you recind it once you get your pif, then your state won't realize there is such a large problem. Your state won't act until it gets enough complaints about something.

Honestly, I don't really consider it a "loophole" per se, rather it's a matter of opinion and / or interpretation. The PDL companies do business in Pennsylvania (or any state without an explicit law prohibiting internet Payday lending) because it is their OPINION that by accessing their website and filling out an application that you are doing business in THEIR STATE. According to the information that I have gathered from different agencies and other posters, it is the LAW, as INTERPRETED by the Attorney General's office, that the company doing the depositing of funds is doing business in the state of residence of the consumer.

It seems like it stands up, and it makes sense to me. The frustrating thing is that PA is apparently indecisive when it comes to their consumer protection. One hand says "yay" the other says "nay" with respect to the issue above.

My head was spinning, but now that I have spoken to the AG's office, I'm going to use what they told me to work some things out. I haven't filed complaints or anything yet, but just showing CashNetUSA that I had spoken to the AG's office (and that I would file complaints and use the AG as a mediator if necessary) got them to back down (at least for now).

Whew. I hope that post made sense.

Whoa goudah...nice post! Good morning!

Yeah, it makes sense. The problem is different interpretations. But it's ultimatly up to the courts to decide the answer.

It totally makes sense to me too that they are doing business in the consumers state. I know that there is a pending court case specifically about this subject going on now, that should decide the answer once and for all. I have a feeling it will go in "our" direction, that internet pdl's do have to follow state laws, regardless of what their piece of crap contract says.

And PA isn't the only indecisive state. There are many others that feel that it's too difficult or too expensive to go after internet companies for breaking their laws. But once they have enough complaints, they will see that this is a big issue, and they will have more of an incentive to go after these predatory companies!